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Great Flip-Flops In History

OK, OK, y’all can stop sending me the link to today’s story that Caitlyn Jenner is thinking about de-transitizing herself [1]:

Ian Halperin, the author of “Kardashian Dynasty: The Controversial Rise of America’s Royal Family,” [2] said that, while researching his book, multiple sources told him that the former Olympian had been miserable for months and has considered transitioning back to a man.

“One source confirmed to me Caitlyn has made whispers of ‘sex change regret,’ hinting she might go back to being Bruce Jenner,” Halperin said.

Halperin said that one long-time friend told him that, while Jenner was “thrilled” to champion transgender issues, the reality TV personality could de-transition “in the next couple years.”

“It hasn’t been easy for Caitlyn, it’s been very hard,” the friend said, according to Halperin. “She’s thrilled she has raised awareness about how transgender people have long been discriminated against but I think there’s a chance she’ll de-transition in the next couple years. I don’t think it would surprise anybody in her inner circle. It has been much harder than she anticipated. My heart goes out to her and I know her true friends will be there to support her on whatever path she chooses.”

Team Caitlyn has denied the report [3], as you knew they would. I bet it’s true, but we’ll see. Good thing he kept his junk. If it does pan out, it will be no time for gloating. Consider what happened to Mike Penner.  [4] Whatever the case, Bruce Jenner is a deeply troubled man. The fact that he did all this in public, and has become a cultural icon, promoted heavily by ESPN, Vanity Fair, and everybody else in the cultural elite, has set him up for an extremely hard fall.

Say, let’s all force the trans treatment on children and adolescents who go wobbly on gender identity. What could it hurt?

UPDATE: One of my learned readers responds to this news with a passage from T.S. Eliot’s “The Waste Land”:

Below, find the Tiresias stanza to “The Fire Sermon” in all its glorious Eliotic pessimism about the inability of meaningless sex, gender-bending, and creepy old peeping Toms to solve any, let alone all, of the world’s problems:

At the violet hour, when the eyes and back 

Turn upward from the desk, when the human engine waits 
Like a taxi throbbing waiting, 
I Tiresias, though blind, throbbing between two lives, 
Old man with wrinkled female breasts, can see 
At the violet hour, the evening hour that strives 
Homeward, and brings the sailor home from sea, 
The typist home at teatime, clears her breakfast, lights 
Her stove, and lays out food in tins. 
Out of the window perilously spread 
Her drying combinations touched by the sun’s last rays, 
On the divan are piled (at night her bed) 
Stockings, slippers, camisoles, and stays. 
I Tiresias, old man with wrinkled dugs 
Perceived the scene, and foretold the rest— 
I too awaited the expected guest. 
He, the young man carbuncular, arrives, 
A small house agent’s clerk, with one bold stare, 
One of the low on whom assurance sits 
As a silk hat on a Bradford millionaire. 
The time is now propitious, as he guesses, 
The meal is ended, she is bored and tired, 
Endeavours to engage her in caresses 
Which still are unreproved, if undesired. 
Flushed and decided, he assaults at once; 
Exploring hands encounter no defence; 
His vanity requires no response, 
And makes a welcome of indifference. 
(And I Tiresias have foresuffered all 
Enacted on this same divan or bed; 
I who have sat by Thebes below the wall 
And walked among the lowest of the dead.) 
Bestows one final patronising kiss, 
And gropes his way, finding the stairs unlit . . .


33 Comments (Open | Close)

33 Comments To "Great Flip-Flops In History"

#1 Comment By Mr “Hate Crime” On May 12, 2016 @ 5:15 pm

So is it OK to go back to using the correct (accurate) pronoun for him now?

And if he “detransitions”, isn’t that phrase an implcit admission that he has been a man all along anyway? Wouldn’t the more progressive phrase still be “transition” because, you know, he is supposedly really a woman now so the next genders he chooses would technically be a “new” state?

This is all so exhausting.

#2 Comment By Ben H On May 12, 2016 @ 5:22 pm

So if we get Bruce back does that mean he is a Trans-trans-man. Or maybe a double trans. Or a re-trans. This topic will get someone a PHD in Gender Studies someday, before Boko Haram takes over.

#3 Comment By Curious On May 12, 2016 @ 5:31 pm

Here is a blog post about Walt Heyer (WH), who had SRS and then later regretted it.

He was interview by Patrick Coffin (PC) on the Catholic Answers Focus Podcast.


PC: One side of the transgendered story that you don’t hear often are the ones that are regretted and regretted quickly. Was that the case with you?

WH: No, in my case, I was out there for eight years. I’ve heard reports of people regretting it after three weeks, but I’ve also heard of those who took thirty years to admit they regretted it. Because it’s such an enormous change, people don’t want to admit it. Not an easy thing to do. And when you do go back to a therapist who’s an advocate for sex change, you hear, “You look fine, just give it time,” and so on. A lot of them are just so thoroughly broken by the destruction of changing genders, that rehabilitation is very, very difficult. And there are a lot of things that are difficult to restore, and the pain and agony that people had that caused the desire to change genders is still there—and now they’ve compiled even a larger issue to deal with. So it’s a double whammy.

#4 Comment By Michelle On May 12, 2016 @ 5:36 pm

I don’t care what Jenner does, one way or another. I just hope he does it in private and obscurity. The whole publicity stunt nature of his “transition” was stomach turning. A money-making deal for him, no doubt, but something of an affront to non-celebrity transgendered folks who don’t transition from 65 year old men to 35 year old bimbos. That the media fell all over him only made things worse. How I hate America’s obsession with celebrity.

#5 Comment By Trin On May 12, 2016 @ 5:40 pm

Not to sound quite entirely cynical, but perhaps now that she’s pretty much beaten the rap on that fatal car crash she caused (back in the Bruce-old days), she no longer needs the publicity armor that being Caitlyn gave her. Or, more charitably, perhaps she’s begun to shake off the mental trauma that caused her to develop her neurosis.

#6 Comment By M.B. On May 12, 2016 @ 5:42 pm

“Good thing he kept his junk.”

Yikes. I had no idea as to the status of Caitlyn Jenner’s genitals until I read this lovely post. Definitely adds that certain something to the conversation, though.

So what do you want, people to keep their genitals, or not? Is the point of this post to deride someone who has made that decision while insisting that no one else should? Somehow this is your business? With rhetoric like this, it’s no wonder y’all are losing the game. Just when I think it’s genuinely about religion for you, you prove to me that no, it really is just good ol’ boy bullying.

Robert Dear represents all conservatives Christians just as Caitlyn Jenner represents all trans people. Obviously, right?

Back to the topic of genitals… There are 15 common intersex conditions. It is estimated that one in 100 people are born with one of these. Maybe “religious conservatives” should establish a Ben Op in North Carolina where they can take a peek in everyone’s undies and weigh in on their gender identity. (“Hmmm…Jesus tells me….you’re a boy. Congratulations! Now take off that dress and get ye to a monster truck rally!”)

#7 Comment By Cascadian On May 12, 2016 @ 5:42 pm

Good think he kept his junk indeed. I’m ambivalent on the trans issue. I don’t believe that gender is binary. Phrases like: he’s all boy, sensitive guy, girly girl, or tomboy indicates range of characteristics. Given that, if kids decide to play with those structures because transgression, no one has done it before etc., I have a hard time as an old person who was once young and transgressive to have much to say.

As far as kids go… well, wow. It’s going to be rough. There are parents on both sides that use their rights questionably. We just had a case up here where parents were convicted because they used naturopathic remedies for meningitis instead of medicine. What happens when a fundi parent decides they would rather have a trans child than a gay child. These things have and will happen. There will always be incompetent dangerous parents of all types.

#8 Comment By elrond On May 12, 2016 @ 5:44 pm

Transsexuals who later regret mutilating their bodies often receive death threats from militant transsexuals determined to silence any trans-men who show second thoughts. It’s a fully documented phenomenon. Trans-militants are a very hateful group who will stop at nothing to further their agenda which is imposing their ideology on others by forces starting with young children.

There may yet be hope for Bruce Jenner. He doesn’t have to live a lie to the end of his days just to keep militant transsexuals happy. Potentially, he could even bring hope to other trans-men and inspire them to have the courage to reverse-transition rather than suffer living a lie. If Jenner does ultimately reverse-transition, I’m certain he will be mercilessly and cruelly savaged by the same elites and their mouthpieces who enthusiastically supported his move from male to “female.”

#9 Comment By Sam M On May 12, 2016 @ 6:12 pm

Privilege check!

Why would be a “de-transition”?

People insist he IS a woman. Not a transitional woman. Not a former man. He always WAS a woman and his transition merely brought us all into the REAL reality. He IS a woman. Despite the penis. Anyone who says otherwise is bigot.

So it’ll just be a transition from woman to man. Right? Not a detransition.

#10 Comment By Adamant On May 12, 2016 @ 6:20 pm

I think we would all be well served by not letting the Kardashian P.R. machine live rent free in our heads for another minute.

#11 Comment By Pogonip On May 12, 2016 @ 6:32 pm

This transgender fad is beginning to remind me of the repressed-memory fad of the last century–that one also wrecked lives and was also fanatically pushed by our moral and intellectual betters.

#12 Comment By M DeGroat On May 12, 2016 @ 7:09 pm

This is why, as frightening and odious as I find the current fascist turn toward silencing any criticism of transgenderism, I don’t fear it will bring about the death of Western culture/civil society/our conception of reality, what have you, because it can’t last . It’s too slender a reed on which to build a viable social movement, and those pushing it are already way, way too far out on this particular twig.

Trans people, on the whole, are not dependable allies. Ordinary heterosexual are not going to be bullied into dating them without informed consent, as some of the agitprop that’s been highlighted on this site has suggested they should be. Unlike gay marriage, the woolier implications of transgenderism have little to nothing backing them in the way of objective reality. There’s no doubting that gays and lesbians can form stable relationships, but if the current poster child for the T (admittedly, unwanted by many of his “peers”) can’t even form a stable identity? I’m not sure that “Caitlin” will be allowed to fall, given all the other people that he might now bring down with him.

#13 Comment By Grumpy Realist On May 12, 2016 @ 7:16 pm

It doesn’t surprise me that some transsexuals discover that transitioning brings regrets. If you Hav convinced yourself that the major problem in your life is a sexual identity problem, and that if Only That Were Fixed all would be gas and gaiters, frolicking puppies and blissful unicorns in the garden…well, you may discover that after you change it turns out that your sexual identity wasn’t really the problem after all.

I still think we could solve the problem much more easily if men could dress like Louis XIV.

#14 Comment By Todd On May 12, 2016 @ 7:53 pm

I’m troubled by you never seeming to show any compassion for these people.

[NFR: You’re troubled by me. — RD]

#15 Comment By Scott Thomas On May 12, 2016 @ 8:54 pm

I tell this story not to laugh at anyone but to illustrate one example of the insanity. As a canonist and marriage tribunal judge, I thought I’d seen it all, until we received a petition for a finding of nullity… seems a man had married a woman, then realized he was actually a woman so he divorced his wife, had his equipment removed and lived as a woman. Then he had a change of heart and realized he’d made a mistake, so he had…something, sewn on to make him a male again. So now he wanted to marry a woman (in the Catholic church) and needed a declaration of nullity for that first marriage. We informed him that whatever he was now equipped with he could not consummate the desired union in a “human manner” (which is the canonical term). Again, this is not to hold anyone up to ridicule but to illustrate how confused some people are. And of course, no intelligent, caring and loving person would dare say the man was simply a sad, confused person in need of compassion and counselling. To do so would put one at risk being labelled bigot or hater.

#16 Comment By anori On May 12, 2016 @ 8:59 pm

Re your comment, this is said to be one of the major reasons why SRS is so common in Iran, of all places. It is in some ways easier to do that than to live as LGB.

#17 Comment By kgasmart On May 12, 2016 @ 9:54 pm

There are 15 common intersex conditions.

Oh please. Spare us the lecture, oh moral better. And what does intersex conditions have to do with transgenderism anyway?

#18 Comment By Johan On May 12, 2016 @ 10:10 pm

Trans-mania squared: MtFtM. But the TransIdeologues will be able to dance across this tightrope without spilling a drop. “How courageous that He became She. [oops] How courageous that He/She became Him. Have a problem with the trans-trans? Well you’re a bigot”. I sure they can figure out a new party line, they seem nimble at it.

#19 Comment By MH – Secular Misanthropist On May 12, 2016 @ 10:12 pm

Ignore the Kardashians and they’ll go away.

#20 Comment By Charles Cosimano On May 12, 2016 @ 10:28 pm

Spinning, my head is spinning…

#21 Comment By BasilNova On May 12, 2016 @ 11:26 pm

Thank God there were all those fey English synth bands (and Morrissey!)in the 80’s who let us confused midwestern hetero boys explore our feminine sides without actually needing to put on a corset.

#22 Comment By M_Young On May 12, 2016 @ 11:37 pm

“Spinning, my head is spinning…”

Bruce/Caitlyn, [6]

#23 Comment By Surly On May 12, 2016 @ 11:40 pm

Pogonip nails it.

I thought at the time that the Jenner transition was a publicity stunt–and bingo–the minute ze falls out of the headlines there is a story about zim regretting the transition.

#24 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On May 12, 2016 @ 11:50 pm

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

(There’s really nothing more to say about this. But then, there never was.)

#25 Comment By Potato On May 13, 2016 @ 12:04 am

There are 15 common intersex conditions. It is estimated that one in 100 people are born with one of these.

One in every 100 of us is intersex? Garbage. Please. We badly need a citation here. I’m suspecting that “intersex condition” as used here covers a lot of ground (like undescended testicle) which actually is nothing of the sort.

Moving right along away from such nonsense, I do feel sorry for Bruce Jenner, even though most of the difficulties he has are self-manufactured. (But then this could be said of most of us.)

People who are emotionally and mentally whole do not behave the way he is behaving, so I conclude that he is badly ill, poor guy.

I suppose this whole thing answers the question of whether he was “always” a woman (and therefore should give his Olympic medal back, since he should not have been competing in a male-only event). I’m going to go right out on a limb here and say that he was always (and remains) a man, junk or lack thereof notwithstanding. He is a man somewhat (but fortunately not catastrophically) mutilated by plastic surgery at this point. I am planting my flag on the idea that this is not something anyone can change. (I am willing to treat people who are deluded to the contrary with good manners of course.)

One account I read asserts that Jenner is still sexually interested in women, and has found that most women are not very attracted to the Caityn thing. If this is true I have no idea why it took him so long to figure this out. Even if you are the Ultimate in Awesome (as he seems to think he is), most normal heterosexual women are not going to be willing to have sex with “Caitlyn.” And lesbians seem to be taking the tack that in their case, “woman” means a real one, not someone who used to be a man. (Some lesbians have taken some flack for this as we have noted.)

At first Jenner’s chief interest in being a woman seemed to center around makeup and nail polish. According to his own account. (He once stated that the chief joy of his new life was the ability to wear nail polish until it chipped off.) If that’s all it’s about you can paint your nails indefinitely, and throw “girl” parties at your mansion to your heart’s content, talking about clothes and makeup.

If you want something more out of life….maybe not.

[NFR: Plus he’s elderly. What lesbian wants to have sex with a wrinkled penis person in drag? What heterosexual woman who may appreciate a penis, however superannuated, wants to take it attached to an old man masquerading as a woman? Why am I having to contemplate these questions? — RD]

#26 Comment By cecelia On May 13, 2016 @ 12:11 am

What a terrible sad and tragic story re: Mike Penner.

Not surprised by the stories re: Jenner. I would suspect Jenner had all sorts of fantasies about a marvelous life as a woman that have not come true. It also seemed to me that a lot of the Jenner thing was all about clothes and makeup.

I’ve read some testimonials by guys who transitioned and then finally reached appoint where they simply couldn’t lie to themselves anymore – it is hard to persuade yourself that you are woman when you need constant hormone therapy and makeup to get “the look”. Renee Richards is a good example.

I think ultimately this whole movement will collapse – the militancy and nasty methods used by the trans activists will backfire, the lack of a rational scientific basis for the claims of the activist will become more apparent and the contradictions of the whole ideology will also become more apparent not to mention that those who are harmed by this will become more vocal. That is why I think we should avoid the trap that is set here – do not ridicule do not demonize – express empathy for those who are suffering through their confusion and gently make the logical argument against all this. Do not make the same mistake that was made re: SSM.

#27 Comment By Rombald On May 13, 2016 @ 1:10 am

I’m throwing this out more as a discussion point than anything else, but do you think this transgender craze is as much a result of increasing demand for sexual dualism than anything else?

It seems to me that from about 1800 until about 1970, the legal and social difference between the sexes was progressively reduced, but the change has since gone into reverse.

I don’t know whether the “Famous Five” children’s books, written in the 1950s, are familiar to Americans, but no character like the girl, George, could possibly be included in a children’s book now; she would be taken to be at least lesbian, or probably trans. There seems to be increasing intolerance of low-level gender nonconformity (tomboys, sissy boys, etc.), so people have no choice but to go in for full-blown transsexuality.

I remember when I was about 10, wishing I was a girl, because I hated sport, and wanted to sit quietly and read, and play house. I fear for what would happen to a boy like me nowadays.

#28 Comment By MC On May 13, 2016 @ 4:41 am

“If it does pan out, it will be no time for gloating.”

Oh, come now, don’t be a killjoy.

#29 Comment By Potato On May 13, 2016 @ 8:12 am

There seems to be increasing intolerance of low-level gender nonconformity (tomboys, sissy boys, etc.), so people have no choice but to go in for full-blown transsexuality.

This is a great point!

Radical feminists are running around saying this relentlessly, and saying that transsexuality depends heavily on rigid gender roles (which they are opposing). Unfortunately there don’t seem to be enough people pointing this out, but I have hope for the future.

At bottom transsexuality is all about shoving all of us into the same old boring boxes.

#30 Comment By Ms. M-S On May 13, 2016 @ 9:13 am

How long before Bruce regains the limelight by announcing that all the transstuff was nothing more (or less) than his heroic effort to force the public to focus on the issue?

#31 Comment By Anne On May 13, 2016 @ 9:13 am

This happens with many trans people, or so I’ve heard, which is why so many professionals counsel those considering the surgery to wait awhile before going all the way. It’s not hard to see why, given the social and psychological pressures involved. In Jenner’s case, he had 60-plus years of habits and relationships invested in being Bruce, however conflicted he felt about it. Being Caitlyn, while, given all the supportive publicity, may have been easier for him than being an all-new persona is for most transgenders, it’s still a transition naturally fraught with conflicting emotions. They say there’s a certain giddiness many feel just from the relief of being who they want to be for the first time, but that lasts a year at most. After that, adjusting is a challenge, as you’d think it would be. Life in a fishbowl, as Jenner lives it, has to present even more pressures. Only fantasy, as reality TV basically is, would try to present “becoming Cate” as some sort of happy ending. The whole situation is hard, not something people wish on those they care about, which is all the more reason for adopting more benign public policies. The stronger a society is the more it can afford to allow its vulnerable to work out their problems in peace.

#32 Comment By bob On May 13, 2016 @ 12:29 pm

Mr. Jenner has one other thing to worry about assuming his buyers regret is real. If he wants to go back, he is an apostate. He willingly converted to the glbtstfu religion, and backsliding is taken mighty serious. Once in a while the rare person comes along who says they outgrew being gay. Boy and girl, their newfound rationality is not appreciated. If Bruce really is leaving the drag stage, his persecution has just begun, there’s a screeching army about to show him just what tolerance looks like and how liberal people treat a traitor. It has to be exhausting among other things to constantly be “on” as a self deluding person trying to act and act, day and night. What actor really wants to *be* their role forever? It may just be Bruce didn’t have the true heart of the narcissist to sustainthe ruse. Good luck to him, he may possibly be in real hot water, but the temperature is actually just right. Welcome back to the men’s room.

#33 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On May 13, 2016 @ 10:25 pm

At first Jenner’s chief interest in being a woman seemed to center around makeup and nail polish. According to his own account. (He once stated that the chief joy of his new life was the ability to wear nail polish until it chipped off.) If that’s all it’s about you can paint your nails indefinitely, and throw “girl” parties at your mansion to your heart’s content, talking about clothes and makeup.

Remember when there was something called “transvestite”? It was the butt of disparaging jokes and all, but you didn’t have to actually become a woman/man, it just meant you enjoyed cross-dressing, another term that has been almost buried by the trans-gender fad.

bob is right, if Jenner transitions back to male, the LGBTQWERTY cabal will bestow upon him the male name of Benedict.