A Canadian teenager went online and was talked into flashing her breasts to some creep. The creep captured the image, and tried to blackmail her with it. He figured out who she was, and sent the image to her friends, family, everyone she knew. Then he set up a Facebook page using her breasts as his background photo. Between the cyberbullying and real-life harassment, the girl had a meltdown, began drinking, doing drugs, spiraled into depression, cutting herself, and so on. In this video above, she has a poignant line about how that one image, on the Internet, lives forever. That image tormented her to death; she committed suicide yesterday. Amanda Todd was 15.
There, Forever
28 Responses to There, Forever
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Rod Dreher says:
When I think of all the dumb things I did from age 12-16, I simply cannot imagine if I’d (not to mention other people) had access to all the technologies recording every single thing today.
I know what you mean. That’s why I posted this. Melodramatic, emotionally troubled, even suicidal teens are nothing new. What got to me about this was the role technology in the hands of a malicious person played in driving this girl to murder herself.
Do you know Nietzsche’s idea of Eternal Return? That we should act as if everything we do would have to be repeated forever. These days, simply as a precaution, teenagers should be taught to act as if everything they do will be online forever. Grim, but there you are.
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Amarus Cameron says:
Just coming out of the phase of life where people like this are common to see the video really spoke to me.
I really wanted to be friends with anyone who was beaten down in school, I moved a lot so I found that they were normally happy to have me. The problem with people who are looking for attention only and the ones who really need help is that the former is loud and the latter is quiet.
Since graduating high school five years ago four of my friends have committed suicide. I have felt so guilty about it, wondering what I could have done to make them change their mind, but the sad thing is I never even knew they were contemplating it. Even with people you are really close to the people who really need help rarely ask for it.
As for the role of technology here, it is staggering the effect that it can have. I was blessed with parents that watched me closely and made sure I was not a fool with what I was given. That said, even the couple years difference in age between me and this young lady has a valley wide difference in the availability of videochats and social networking.
Frequenting sites such as Reddit I see how often people use things such as chatroulette to pass the time and though many people are obviously just passing the time and having fun, it is also equally as obvious that some people really should not be there.
Also it is not as if you can just turn it off and ignore it anymore, because all of your friends have access to any of the same things you do. You WILL hear about whatever it is that you did.
It just really hit home the way a young lady such as Amanda could be personally destroyed by this.
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The metaphysics of the Internet according to Nietzsche! I love it!
Actually, if one really took that idea seriously, it’s extremely empowering. In short, treat every single thing you do–good, bad, ugly–as if it is worthy of infinite repetition. In short, one embraces everything totally in a love of fate (amor fati), affirming completely. Thus, ideally, one would not just be resigned to one’s fate, whatever it is, but joyfully embrace it. So one would, presumably, not feel motivated towards suicide.
Of course, there are some obviously problematic areas such a view could go into, as well; but I think there is something to it.
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Matt says:
So the guy was arrested and charged with some form of wrongful death?
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What happened to the person who did this to her? Were they caught and punished? I will pray for her.
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Does anyone know who harassed her? It seems to me that he could be charged with child pornography. Or they could post his name, address, face, and schedule online and let an outraged public (or even a few outraged citizens) do the rest.
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Anglican says:
That video is one of the most heart breaking things, I’ve ever watched. Lord have mercy.
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Dan Davis says:
As I understand it, there’s no “as if” about it. Google, Chrome, Bing etc. keep your search history essentially forever, you really have to jump through hoops to delete a Facebook account, and even then, if other people have shared your posts they will live on until the sun becomes a supernova and engulfs the planet. I think the same is true of Youtube also.
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tmatt says:
Someday the Smithsonian will do an exhibit on the early WWW and its impact on our culture. This video should be in it. Our world: Glorious and fallen. This is the fallen part of the digital age.
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Magister Aurelius says:
I do not have children. But if I was to have a daughter, and this was happening to her, I would hope to have the determination to comfort her as best I could, let her know that her tormentor would be dealt with, and then proceed to use said power of the interwebs to track down and show the creep the real life power of an enraged father. How much bad behavior and sickness has been tolerated simply because we do no longer fear what an angry father will do to protect his children?
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Franklin Evans says:
I have a very strong personal perspective on suicide, which I will phrase assertively. However, my intention is to inform, not to give argument. I see only two posts here so far, but my references are intended to be general and food for thought, not chastisments.
I had a roommate in college who was suicidal [that conclusion being based on hindsight]. We’d have long talks, mostly his talking, and I grew increasingly concerned and at the same time at a complete loss for what to say or do. One night he “exploded” and with me as a witness attempted to kill himself. He did not succeed, but I spent the next several weeks (with much help from professionals and friends) coping with feelings of responsibility and guilt.
A few years later, motivated by that experience and its aftermath, I volunteered for a crisis intervention phone service. None of my stories from that are relevant here, but what is relevant is that I received two full weeks of training and instructions for how to deal with potential suicides in a phone conversation.
What I learned is that a potential suicide is standing at a precipice. Acting or not acting is subject to a day-by-day, even moment-by-moment inner dialogue that may or may not be connected with the outside world at that point. Never condoning the malice shown to Miss Todd, it is true to say that one cannot be “responsible” for causing a suicide attempt. One can be present, one can be a participant in the moments leading up to the attempt, but responsibility is an incredibly complex dynamic. It can include unwitting reinforcement from family and true friends, or a complete lack of such a support system.
Rod, words are important, and I absolutely understand your POV on this, but the girl did not murder herself. She killed herself, and the semantic nuances are critically important in this context. A murderer is ending the life of another on his or her volition (accidents are stipulated and are not needed in this context). A suicide has decided to end his or her life, and from my layperson’s perspective that decision is made in the face of feeling completely trapped, in pain that will not end, and death is either the only choice or the most attractive choice. It is perfectly rational to the suicidal person. It cannot be grasped rationally by anyone who has not experienced those feelings. To the rest of us, it is irrational, and must remain so.
I’ve never been suicidal. My last assertion above is based on conversations with people who have survived their attempts. I shall trust their words implicitly until science offers a way to confirm or reject them objectively. No holding of breath here on that.
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Peterk says:
that was hard to watch, but made it all the way through
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pacopond says:
Nietzsche’s Eternal Return was not some metaphysical statement, but an existential exhortation. Live each moment as though it could be eternally replayed; say yes to life.
(At least that’s how the idea is expressed in the middle period of his writing–I’m less sure about his last works.)
But the point about teenagers is to encourage them, warn them, exhort them, do whatever it takes to protect their precious lives until they gain the assurance and self-confidence of an authentic adulthood.
I’ve had moments where I wondered if we were getting oversensitive, over-therapeutic, in dealing with postmodern bullying. But then I remember that information technology has enhanced the scope and power of all the bully’s weapons, while providing anonymity and immunity from the censure of decent members of the community. Yeah, things really are different now.
Eternal Return occurs in the virtual lives so many of these kids inhabit. I hope that they find, with guidance and care, the yea-saying-to-life possibility.
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rebecca says:
So who was the one that originally posted the video? Is he (I assume that it’s a he) being held accountable? I can personally think of a few good punishments for this prick. Perform them on him, then post THOSE on the internet, and then see what he does with himself. This kind of punishment is the only thing that will stop bullies. Especially those that are responsible for starting the thing to begin with. In any event, he has some major karma to deal with in one way or the other. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
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What are kids (ages 12-16) to be expected to do? Have parents, that’s what.
If there is a computer your minor child can access in a secluded room of the house, go and move it right now to the most public room in the house (kitchens or living rooms are good). Do not let them take a laptop with internet access or a tablet etc. into a secluded room and lock the door. Monitor their online activity and make sure they know you will be doing so; set up their email addresses so you can easily see their sent and received messages; do not allow them to have Facebook or Twitter accounts at all at younger ages, and read their posts or tweets if you let them have such accounts when they are older. If they must have a cell phone, pay for voice only, and make it clear to them up front that texting is not allowed; your minor teen will not die without a smartphone no matter how many of his friends have one or how “uncool” he is to be denied such an expensive toy.
Can you stop them from using school or library computers to contact creeps? No, but it’s unlikely they’ll be able to take nude pictures of themselves in those environs, and at least your younger teens won’t be unsupervised in such settings.
And talk to them sincerely about the dangers lurking online for teens; believe it or not, the “Keeping Children Safe” class I took in order to be a choir member at my church had a really helpful list of things kids needed to be careful about on the internet and how to talk to them about online danger, and I sat down and shared these tips with my teens after my husband and I got back from the class.
One thing I told my girls was this: I trust them very much. I don’t trust the millions of creeps and pervs with Internet access and the desire to hurt girls their ages. They appreciate that, and will come to me anytime they even get a weird spam message so I can delete it.
The teen years are difficult enough without vulnerable children being made the target of this sort of evil.
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lovejoy says:
@Erin Manning,
Erin, could you say more about the Keeping Children Safe program? Where else is it available?
In fact, if it’s not too much trouble, could you summarize it here?
Rod, perhaps you could have an informative post about Internet safety and how to keep this sort of thing (this girl’s suicide) from happening again. -
Erin, wonderful, insightful and practical advice for protecting children. I will forward your words to my school’s committee dealing with bullying. Thank you so much.
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GCR says:
Good advice, Erin – we kept our computer in the basement family room, where my mom could see it from the kitchen when we were on it.
At the very least, some prosecutor should get this guy for harassment or stalking, I would think!
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I respectfully remind those with righteous wrath and retribution in mind that this is the United States of America, and the legal system decides on actions and punishments, not private citizens.
I request an examination of the general case: there are many (each day dozens, hundreds, thousands?) of bullying and harrassment events out there, with suicide being the rare outcome, not the rule. Are you as willing and ready to call for in-kind punishments of the perpetrators, the same rush to investigate and arrest, as in Miss Todd’s case? The punishment must fit the crime, not the outcomes, unless our criminal justice system deems additional charges are warranted.
If not, I would personally offer a certain disapprobation bordering on mild contempt of your view of this general behavior and the efforts you might make to find it and correct it.
Statement of personal bias: When I drive to and from work, I am threatened with serious injury and death on a daily basis. Do we really need to wait until someone is maimed for life or dies to stop aggressive driving behaviors? People chide me with “There’s only an X% (very small number) of your being in an accident” to which I reply, “Yes, but when it happens I’ll be 100% dead.” I believe I am righteously justified in drawing that as a direct analogy to the tragedy of Miss Todd.
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Naturalmom says:
This makes me so sad, on so many levels.
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Mary Russell says:
People who choose to commit suicide- there is always a choice- are merely transferring their internal pain to their families and friends.
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I’m surprised no effort has been made to track down the perpetrator. He probably can’t be prosecuted for premeditated intentional homicide, but in some states, committing an act a rational person should know could lead to a person’s death is one definition of second degree murder. Then there is negligent homicide…
This character would seem to have less of an “I didn’t mean it” defense than the recent defendant in New Jersey who videotaped his room-mate… Amanda was the subject of REPEATED attention.
While Franklin is correct as to orderly legal process, I’m not sure its beyond the pale to post a YouTube clip “This is the creep who asked Amanda Todd to flash him in [YEAR].” OR open a Facebook page that names him, to invite discussion of what he did.
Would he commit suicide? Probably not. He’d be proud of the attention at first. After a while he’d get sick of it.
I must admit, the logic of Professor Bernardo de la Paz’s method for disposing of informants to the previous regime after the revolutionary declaration of lunar independence has its attractions… publish their names, and do nothing. (Only one lived longer than a couple of months).
But I have a lingering thought there is more to this than one little man’s harrassment of Amanda. She was highly vulnerable to start with, and blundered into another situation separate from the first.
If I had a chance to talk to her, I might have suggested she post her own Facebook page saying things like “This guy’s got a sad life if the way my boobs looked five years ago are SOOOOOO important to him. Move on, jack! Find something bigger to think about… I have.” In short, ridicule him, and make it publicly clear you’re not going to be unduly bothered by it.
But even better, this is why females should tell males eager to go to bed, “If you really love me, you’ll wait five years for me, and have no other girlfriend the whole time.” Set the bar high.
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Lovejoy et al., the program I’m talking about is this one:
http://www.fwdioc.org/safeenv/Pages/default.aspx
Various Catholic dioceses have used this or similar programs in the years since the Scandal to train lay volunteers to recognize the signs of child abuse or to identify vulnerable children at risk. A separate program aimed at teen volunteers helps them not only recognize safe boundaries but also to watch out for warning signs of friends or classmates who are being victimized in some way.
Though I was skeptical at first about these programs, I realized that many adults, particularly those a decade or three older than I am, really have no awareness of the magnitude of the problem of the exploitation, use, and abuse of children. The Scandal robbed Catholics of the idea that any adult, including priests or religious, should be automatically considered “safe” around children–no, this doesn’t mean that every adult is a secret abuser, but it does mean that abusers are really good at blending in and looking like safe people.
I was impressed with the focus for both teen volunteers and the new information for adults on cyberstalking/bullying, Internet sexual conduct and how it makes children and young adults vulnerable, etc. Too many of us tend to take the position that this sort of thing won’t happen to our child(ren) without realizing that it’s not the children we trust, but the abusers out there who work hard to exploit their trusting natures and break down their reserve, that we have to watch out for (and teach our children to watch out for, too).
As the mother of teen girls I’ve learned something important: even teens growing up in a safe, loving, affirming and secure home can struggle with self-image issues, feelings of doubt, that teen tendency to see everything in stark contrasts and to think of everything as of huge import, etc. The teen years really are vulnerable years, and the creeps and perverts out there know this. They will promise a teen the moon and the stars in exchange for one “real” sign that the teen “loves” them–and then use that just like this poor girl’s privacy was used and destroyed.
We have to be on the watch for those things, but it starts with telling our teens every single day if necessary that we love them unconditionally and that their worries and fears are very normal for their age–and that life has a way of evening out all those raw emotions as they grow. They need to hear those things from us as often as possible, and they do NOT need us to hold them to adult standards 24/7 and then tell them how disappointed we are if they fail to measure up–because if we do that unrelentingly we’re making them even more vulnerable to the abuser who will tell them everything they want to hear, and more, until the abuser gets what he or she is after.
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Mary, your words seem rather harsh to me. I think the reason the Church stopped denying suicides church funerals is because we recognize that few people kill themselves as a full, free, deliberate action of the will in such a way as to make it a definite grave sin. This young girl–was she 15 or 13, by the way?–was hounded to a place of anxiety and depression that found some “relief” in destructive acts like cutting. Even her “hook up” with a guy she desperately wanted to believe actually liked her was a pathetic and sad attempt to take control over what started with that nude photo. It’s hard to imagine that her choice to kill herself was a deliberate decision to inflict pain on her family; I think it was a terrible attempt to escape the hellish suffering she was enduring, when nobody (to her) seemed to care.
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Erin, you are reading more into my comments than I said, or meant to say. I would probably just reiterate what Franklin wrote above: that one cannot be responsible for causing a suicide attempt, and that regardless of the evil done to her by this perpetrator, it was her choice to commit suicide. Had she survived this suicide attempt, her future counsellor would likely try to have her see that we can’t necessarily control what people do to us, but we can decide how to react-a principle straight from the Gospels.
Nor do I think she intended to cause her family pain- (although some teens do make a suicide attempt as an act of revenge-a separate issue). But it did have that effect, whether she intended it or not. -
Martha says:
Erin’s advice about pre-teens/teens and computers is good advice, but I don’t see it working well past age 12 unless your child is home-schooled. (seriously, no snark intended.) Many private high schools in North Texas *require* that your child own some sort of tablet or computing device, and bring it to school every day. It’s pretty hard to require that the laptop never be out of public view when they have to carry it to school and back everyday. Some public school districts here have an “open technology” policy where students can bring any computing device they like to school. So even if your child has no smartphone, there’s still plenty of room for trouble when another child does (case in point: My child told me about some internet video he’d seen; I asked where he’d seen that — someone had shown it on their iPhone in the bathroom at school. Because of course, the teachers are not actually IN the bathroom supervising.) As for Facebook and emails – definitely supervise these and read them, but also be aware that some people, even teenagers, create two Facebook accounts, one that they allow family to see and one that is hidden. If they can do that, they probably know how to set up an email address you don’t know about. Certainly you hope they won’t. That line “Have parents, that’s what” made it sound almost easy – I mean, sure it’s work to supervise the family computer, but it can be done. Unfortunately, it doesn’t reflect the situation many families live in.
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Erin, I had a similar reaction to Mary’s post, but Mary’s clarification is spot on from my point of view.
We want to understand the suicide. It is a reaction of empathy, as well as perhaps with a pang of guilt or embarrassment depending on our relationship with that person. I want to reiterate something, but to also introduce it as an observation of fact, not a criticism.
Suicide is an irrational act to the rest of us. There is no getting around that. Empathy can be a big step towards understanding, but understanding is an unattainable goal unless we have experienced the feelings leading up to suicide. Both types of projection, those that attempt to put rational labels around it and those who apply some form of judgment, it all is a wasted effort, because it is an attempt to externally rationalize an internally irrational process.
I am not a mental health professional any more than anyone else here. It is, however, my very strong stance that the healing a suicide needs is not to be convinced to step outside his or herself and join the rest of us in a rational view — and certainly not to be convinced that they have sinned, or any equivalent judgment — but to find a way to internalize that view, to find her way out of the feedback loop that drowns out the rest.
This is so sad, and I don’t know what kids these days are supposed to be expected to do. When I think of all the dumb things I did from age 12-16, I simply cannot imagine if I’d (not to mention other people) had access to all the technologies recording every single thing today. The problems of the 80′s and early 90′s were still difficult for teens, but the worst of them so contained and limited compared to today.