“Much of what drives political passions in the U.S. are different kinds of white women trying to put each other down.” – Steve Sailer.
Culture War As Catfight
80 Responses to Culture War As Catfight
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Elizabeth Anne says:
EngineerScotty – There’s a very good point to be made that mainstream feminism is primarily a white institution. It marginalizes and/or ignores issues of women of color in favor of those that are primarily of concern to middle and upper class women. The “work out of the home / stay at home” mother issue is the classic example of this one. So to that extent “between white women” is a fairly accurate assessment of that narrow set of issues that are, yes, pretty heated in between women.
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JonF says:
Re: It’s liberal women who worry that in a generation or two, their children will be outnumbered by fecund conservatives
Which is silly because political opinions are not hereditary.
Moreover the very definitions of “liberal” and “conservative” change over time. Two generations hence I doubt conseravtives will be fussing about gay issues at all, any more than there are very many today who think women shouldn’t vote or blacks should be segregated from whites, let alone that we should have an established church or be ruled by a monarch. Who knows what the culture wars of 2080 will involve? -
EngineerScotty says:
Mainstream feminism a primarily white institution
That observation had some truth in the past–quite a bit of the early history of feminism focused on granting white women the privileges of white men, particularly in professional and political endeavors. Some feminists counted women of color as sisters, others held them in contempt, and still others didn’t care.
And there are, of course, a few flavors of feminism which have openly condescending attitudes towards traditional roles for women.
In modern times, it would be wrong (and ludicrous) to suggest that white women are the only ones with professional aspirations, and that women of color by and large prefer to remain in the kitchen (and are being undermined). The sort of feminism I support is about giving the same choices and opportunities to men as to women. I’ve little use for the notion that women should be discouraged from staying home if that is their preference, or from wearing the burqa if that is their choice; however I also have little use for the notion that women’s empowerment is culturally-dependent.
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cecelia says:
There are dozen of stories out there – not the least of which is the drums of war thing going on – yet you chose – out of all the possible quotes out there – to highlight Steve Sailor’s intellectually vapid remark and to perseverate on the culture war issues. Seriously Rod – this is who you are? You really think highlighting a quote characterizing all of politics – a blood sport primarily conducted by men – as women cat fighting isn’t insulting ? Not to mention not exactly real high up there on the analysis quotient.
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Mitchell Young says:
“At the risk of further expanding the scope of this little brouhaha, what does “white” have to do with it”
The column in question, written by for a liberal paper by a liberal columnist who, not coincidentally, is Jewish, attacked four white politicians by name, members of what is, de facto, the party of white gentile people in the United States.
A quick search of “Lisa Miller” immigration site: washingtonpost.com, shows nothing indicating that she objects to high levels of immigration, high levels of fertility among hispanic immigrants or their children, or an immigration policy which, de facto, favors high fertility countries and ethnic groups. In fact, all I’ve turned up is what looks like a pro-open borders comment in a Q and A.
“I don’t, by the way, think atheists are the only ones speaking out against intolerance. There are all kinds of religious groups that do so — and some in very interesting ways. The Catholic Bishops, for example, who have been (what I see as ) intolerant on gay marriage and women’s rights have been incredibly vocal on the rights of immigrants, for example.”
Immigration is, directly and indirectly (though the children of immigrants) the major reason for population growth in this country. Given her failure to mention immigration or hispanics, her likely pro-open borders position, and her attack on white Christian fertility, I think it is clear that race/ethnicity is has quite a bit to do with this discussion.
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Dave D. says:
Rod, again I don’t see it.
You might be right in that much of the passion of social conservatism is driven by women more than men, but for political passion in general, no. A lot of social conservatism is centered around women’s issues, and men aren’t as tuned into that.It’s ironic because liberals love to paint social con men as pushing it forwards to enslave women, but it’s actually the women who are the force behind it. With good reason, as all the changes affect them disproportionately.
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Leapold says:
I have often thought that “Basher of Uppity Women” should be in the Occupational Outlook Handbook.
There’s no end to opportunity there.
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Just as a pure language nerd, I am puzzled by this from Rod:
What is “dogfight,” which is the usual term used to describe a dirty fight between men? “Cat” = “prostitution”?
I can’t think of ever having heard “dogfight” used this way–only in regard to fighter plane combat. Merriam-Webster doesn’t give such a definition, and a quick search of online dictionaries didn’t turn up anything closer than “a violent fight, as between dogs”, which is not gender specific.
As to the latter, I’m truly stunned. Rod, you’re from the South and you’ve never heard the term “cathouse”?! Which actually is in Merriam-Webster, defined as “bordello”!
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From the Washington Post:
Romney, Santorum and archaic ideas on fertility
By Lisa Miller, Published: March 2
Between them, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum have as many children — 12 — as there were tribes of Israel. Ron Paul has five of his own, and in an early debate, perhaps unwilling to be outdone by Michele Bachmann’s fostering of dozens, Paul boasted that when he worked as a physician he delivered “4,000 babies.”
There’s nothing wrong with big families, of course. But the smug fecundity of the Republican field this primary season has me worried. Their family photos, with members of their respective broods spilling out to the margins, seem to convey a subliminal message that goes far beyond a father’s pride in being able to field his own basketball team. What the Republican front-runners seem to be saying is this: We are like the biblical patriarchs. As conservative religious believers, we take seriously the biblical injunction to be fruitful and multiply.
… (The appeal of Sarah Palin to so many Christian women was exactly this: She prioritized her fertility while juggling a big job and a husband who was frequently out of town. Her fans call her a Proverbs 31 woman, a reference to the biblical character who does it all — and who keeps herself looking good. Her price, the Bible says, is “above rubies.”) -
sjay says:
Seinfeld covered the “catfight” issue 15 years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrL9z3Kvww
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MC says:
“Which is silly because political opinions are not hereditary.”
(Rolls eyes) No, of course political opinions are not “hereditary”, but you can’t possibly mean that there is no correlation on average between the political/cultural opinions of parents and their children.
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Roland de Chanson says:
Life is short. Art long. Given that, why ought one to read an ungrammatical nonentity?
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pjsmoov says:
Did someone mention catfight? Oh boy!
Anyway, I think Cecilia’s correct that men dominate the culture wars, but Sailer makes an a valid point. It’s interesting to watch feminists determine who can present an acceptable “woman’s voice” or “honestly represent women’s narratives.” It occasionally gets brutal and the equity feminists often go for blood. They’re as exclusive as a high school social clique and their purity tests are quite restrictive. I suppose I should mention Ann Coulter, but I never quite know whether to take her seriously.
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Correction. Sorry Rod. I meant gender feminists not equity feminists.
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There are dozen of stories out there – not the least of which is the drums of war thing going on – yet you chose – out of all the possible quotes out there – to highlight Steve Sailor’s intellectually vapid remark and to perseverate on the culture war issues. Seriously Rod – this is who you are?
Yes, madam, and worse, even. I ignored global warming, the Greek debt crisis, the civil war in Syria, tornadoes in the Midwest, the meth-cooking epidemic, Chaz Bono’s penis envy, and the plight of the Hottentot. I am the sort of person who will go to the grocery store for milk in the morning without first brushing his teeth. I eat ice cream out of the carton and put it back when nobody is looking. I have even been known to fart silently at a party and walk away, making it look like some other dude is to blame. Please pray for me, in your charity.
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Anglican says:
Mr.Sailer is right on.
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IanH says:
Steve Sailer was commenting on a insipid article in the Washington Post that whines about women who like to have big families and how backward they are.
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Bar Bill says:
“I have even been known to fart silently at a party and walk away, making it look like some other dude is to blame. Please pray for me, in your charity.”
Oh boy Rod, this is good! You were definitely on your “A” Game for this.
Speaking of catfights, I remember attending a dinner party during the Monica Lewinski Affair and a HUGE catfight broke out amongst all the wives. The men shrunk back in a combination of horror and amusement as their wives started tearing each other to pieces. A few relationships didn’t survive the evening.
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Naturalmom says:
I’m disappointed. The posting of the initial quote made me roll my eyes, but your subsequent and increasingly snide defense of it makes me sad. Take a look at the percentage of your women readers (and a number of your male readers as well) that find this silly or worse. Most of us participate in the conversations here in a decidedly non-hysterical manner. Just something to think about.
I’ll grant you the point about the Mommy wars — for the reasons Shelley outlines above as well as others — they can get brutal. But I can’t see how Sailor’s quote can be supported in general. It’s an unfair and just plain wrong characterization of political passion in the United States, which is fueled by the passions of men and women alike. Most of them are white because whites are still the largest portion of the adult population, but plenty of non-whites add to the passionate discussion. It’s just a silly observation that can’t survive more than about 10 seconds of serious thought.
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James Kabala says:
I don’t find this statement offensive, but count me as another who has never heard the word “dogfight” and has heard the word “cathouse” (used repeatedly in Of Mice and Men – can’t say I’ve ever heard it used in real life).
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Andrea says:
I read Steve Sailer because he occasionally has interesting things to say, but he quite often displays misogynistic leanings as well as racist tendencies. In this instance, I would say men are as capable of derailing the discussion and turning politics into a personality game.
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Lulu says:
Rod, your farting silently at parties and then walking away is such an abuse of your male privilege; everyone knows how women cannot fart publicly (even silently) without opprobrium.
Down with patriarchal privileges!
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I wonder how many of those complaining about the term ‘cat fight’ here tune in, even if occasionally and with a tinge of guilt, to one of Bravo’s “Real Housewives” programs.
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More broadly, I think it’s worth considering to what extent much of the passion in American politics comes from white-people tribal in-fighting. The culture war is real, on both sides, but it’s interesting to think about the extent to which our perception of it reflects the particular concerns of the educated white people in decision-making positions in the national media.
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“More broadly, I think it’s worth considering to what extent much of the passion in American politics comes from white-people tribal in-fighting.”
So far as I can tell, only one commenter here has mentioned that Ms. Miller, the author of that ridiculous piece on conservative Christian fecundity, is Jewish. Considering just what a high percentage of white women liberal intellectuals are Jewish, that seems a pretty relevant point. Rest assured, that has not gone overlooked in the comment section at Steve Sailer’s blog.
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This article today at Salon.com might add a bit to this concept, and might be worth a thread in itself.
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Oddly, cat fights are usually between male cats.
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True JonF, but anthropomorphically, dogs are male and cats are female. I wonder if that literary motif has any relevance for gay rights, given that biologically, male dogs mate with female dogs, and male cats with female cats?
KMT 
Go read some of Ann Coulters collumns. Do you really think she could get away with that sort of thing for long if she were male?
Rush Limbaugh does.