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Voting Vengefully

So, to absolutely no one’s surprise, two more women are out with credible accusations that Donald Trump sexually assaulted them (groping, etc.). [1] The modus operandi he bragged about on the Billy Bush tape? That’s what he did with these two women, they say. To which Trump replied:

In a phone interview on Tuesday night, a highly agitated Mr. Trump denied every one of the women’s claims.

“None of this ever took place,” said Mr. Trump, who began shouting at the Times reporter who was questioning him. He said that The Times was making up the allegations to hurt him and that he would sue the news organization if it reported them.

“You are a disgusting human being,” he told the reporter as she questioned him about the women’s claims.

Asked whether he had ever done any of the kissing or groping that he had described on the recording, Mr. Trump was once again insistent: “I don’t do it. I don’t do it. It was locker room talk.”

Liar. More:

Ms. Leeds was 38 at the time and living in Connecticut. She had been seated in coach. But a flight attendant invited her to take an empty seat in first class, she said. That seat was beside Mr. Trump, who did not yet own a fleet of private aircraft, records show. He introduced himself and shook her hand. They exchanged pleasantries, and Mr. Trump asked her if she was married. She was divorced, and told him so.

Later, after their dinner trays were cleared, she said, Mr. Trump raised the armrest, moved toward her and began to grope her. Ms. Leeds said she recoiled. She quickly left the first-class cabin and returned to coach, she said.

“I was angry and shook up,” she recalled, as she sat on a couch in her New York City apartment on Tuesday.

She did not complain to the airline staff at the time, Ms. Leeds said, because such unwanted advances from men occurred throughout her time in business in the 1970s and early 1980s. “We accepted it for years,” she said of the conduct. “We were taught it was our fault.”

Read the whole thing. [1] Or not. There will be new ones soon, no doubt.

Reading that sad last quote (“We accepted it for years. We were taught it was our fault”) really gets to me. I can well imagine that a lot of women — and not just Democratic women — will cast a vote against Trump in part as payback to all the men who have treated them that way in the past. Can’t say that I blame them. What pleasure it must be to see a jackass like Donald Trump get his comeuppance on a national stage, losing the presidency to a woman, in part because women he piggishly mistreated over the years came forward to rat him out. There’s something cosmically just in that.

(Though you know who I have no respect for? Feminists and other liberals who justified Bill Clinton acting this way because if they stood on principle, it might help the Republicans. They’re in the same boat as the conservatives today who condemned Bill Clinton but who today defend Trump, because if they stood on principle, it might help the Democrats.)

On the subject of vengeance voting, I want to commend to you this fantastic piece in Cracked sent in by a reader: “Six Reasons For Trump’s Rise That No One Talks About.” [2] It’s long and profane in parts, but dead on target. Author David Wong grew up in Trump country (small-town Illinois), and explains Trump’s rise in terms of rural vs. urban. Excerpts:

As a kid, visiting Chicago was like, well, Katniss visiting the capital. Or like Zoey visiting the city of the future in this ridiculous book [3]. “Their ways are strange.

And the whole goddamned world revolves around them.

Every TV show is about LA or New York, maybe with some Chicago or Baltimore thrown in. When they did make a show about us, we were jokes — either wide-eyed, naive fluffballs (Parks And Recreation, and before that, Newhart) or filthy murderous mutants (True Detective, and before that, Deliverance). You could feel the arrogance from hundreds of miles away.

“Nothing that happens outside the city matters!” they say at their cocktail parties, blissfully unaware of where their food is grown. Hey, remember when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans? Kind of weird that a big hurricane hundreds of miles across managed to snipe one specific city and avoid everything else. To watch the news (or the multiple movies and TV shows about it), you’d barely hear about how the storm utterly steamrolled rural Mississippi, killing 238 people and doing an astounding $125 billion in damage [4]

But who cares about those people, right? What’s newsworthy about a bunch of toothless hillbillies crying over a flattened trailer? New Orleans is culturally important. It matters.

To those ignored, suffering people, Donald Trump is a brick chucked through the window of the elites. “Are you assholes listening now?

More:

The cities are always living in the future. I remember when our little town got our first Chinese restaurant and, 20 years later, its first fancy coffee shop. All of this stuff had turned up in movies (set in L.A., of course) decades earlier. I remember watching ’80s movies and mocking the “Valley Girl” [5]stereotypes — young girls from, like, California who would, like, say, “like” in between every third word. Twenty years later, you can hear me doing the same in every Cracked podcast. The cancer started in L.A. and spread to the rest of America.

Well, the perception back then was that those city folks were all turning atheist, abandoning church for their bisexual sex parties. That, we were told, was literally a sign of the Apocalypse. Not just due to the spiritual consequences (which were dire), but the devastation that would come to the culture. I couldn’t imagine any rebuttal. In that place, at that time, the church was everything. Don’t take my word for it — listen to the experts [6]:

via Gallup [6]

Church was where you made friends, met girls, networked for jobs, got social support. The poor could get food and clothes there, couples could get advice on their marriages, addicts could try to get clean. But now we’re seeing a startling decline in Christianity [7] among the general population, the godless disease having spread alongside Valley Girl talk. So according to Fox News, what’s the result of those decadent, atheist, amoral snobs in the cities having turned their noses up at God?

Chaos [8].

The fabric has broken down, they say, just as predicted. And what rural Americans see on the news today is a sneak peek at their tomorrow.

The savages are coming.

Blacks riot, Muslims set bombs, gays spread AIDS, Mexican cartels behead children, atheists tear down Christmas trees. Meanwhile, those liberal Lena Dunhams in their $5,000-a-month apartments sip wine and say, “But those white Christians are the real problem!” Terror victims scream in the street next to their own severed limbs, and the response from the elites is to cry about how men should be allowed to use women’s restrooms and how it’s cruel to keep chickens in cages.

Madness. Their heads are so far up their a**es that they can’t tell up from down. Basic, obvious truths that have gone unquestioned for thousands of years now get laughed at and shouted down — the fact that hard work is better than dependence on government, that children do better with both parents in the picture, that peace is better than rioting, that a strict moral code is better than blithe hedonism, that humans tend to value things they’ve earned more than what they get for free, that not getting exploded by a bomb is better than getting exploded by a bomb.

Or as they say out in the country, “Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

The foundation upon which America was undeniably built — family, faith, and hard work — had been deemed unfashionable and small-minded. Those snooty elites up in their ivory tower laughed as they kicked away that foundation, and then wrote 10,000-word thinkpieces blaming the builders for the ensuing collapse.

One more:

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I’m telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It’s not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse.

So yes, they vote for the guy promising to put things back the way they were, the guy who’d be a wake-up call to the blue islands. They voted for the brick through the window.

It was a vote of desperation.

Read the whole thing. [2] Trust me on this. Wong says if he hadn’t moved away, he’s certain he would be voting for Trump.

I totally get what Wong is saying here. What’s weird is I get it as much as I get why a female voter would take so much pleasure voting for Hillary to throw a brick through the window of Trump Tower (“Trump Tower” being a symbol for powerful men who get away with sexually harassing women). I get hating the Other so much that you would vote for someone you don’t have any confidence in, just because you want Them to hurt like you do.

This is a crappy election. But you knew that already.

UPDATE: Now a magazine journalist says he did it to her in 2005, when she was covering him for People [9]

Then, in December 2005, around the time Trump had his now infamous conversation with Billy Bush, I traveled to Mar-a-Lago to interview the couple for a First Wedding Anniversary feature story.

Our photo team shot the Trumps on the lush grounds of their Florida estate, and I interviewed them about how happy their first year of marriage had been. When we took a break for the then very-pregnant Melania to go upstairs and change wardrobe for more photos, Donald wanted to show me around the mansion. There was one “tremendous” room in particular, he said, that I just had to see.

We walked into that room alone, and Trump shut the door behind us. I turned around, and within seconds, he was pushing me against the wall, and forcing his tongue down my throat.

Now, I’m a tall, strapping girl who grew up wrestling two giant brothers. I even once sparred with Mike Tyson. It takes a lot to push me. But Trump is much bigger—a looming figure—and he was fast, taking me by surprise, and throwing me off balance. I was stunned. And I was grateful when Trump’s longtime butler burst into the room a minute later, as I tried to unpin myself.

The butler informed us that Melania would be down momentarily, and it was time to resume the interview.

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177 Comments (Open | Close)

177 Comments To "Voting Vengefully"

#1 Comment By Geronimo On October 13, 2016 @ 3:37 pm

An ogre-in-chief or american female soldiers in siberian POW camps? Which poison do you choose?

#2 Comment By Nelson On October 13, 2016 @ 3:40 pm

As far as I know, Hillary Clinton has never groped anyone without their consent.

#3 Comment By ginger On October 13, 2016 @ 3:48 pm

mrscracker: “ginger ,
“No matter which candidate wins, I wouldn’t want any of my daughters working in the White House.”

Amen to that and then some.

And in the days of Viagra, these perverts can keep going for decades. Not a pretty thought.

#4 Comment By TR On October 13, 2016 @ 5:11 pm

Much earlier in this thread Wes said that we should stop thinking that all Trump supporters are methheads from the sticks. He’s said it before, and he’s right. Trump has an plenty of well-heeled supporters, (including some Ivy League lawyers).

#5 Comment By EliteCommInc. On October 13, 2016 @ 5:25 pm

I should clarify my previous response to this;

““Can we all just agree now that both candidates have been involved in sexual harassment/ assault, either as direct perpetrators or accomplices after the fact, and spend at least a LITTLE TIME talking about something else before the election?”

No I won’t agree to this,

“Can we all just agree now that both candidates have been involved in sexual harassment/ assault, either as direct perpetrators or accomplices after the fact,”

Because I m not sure that M. trump has done any such thing.

I would be happy to do this,

“spend at least a LITTLE TIME talking about something else before the election?”

And on top of pressing against the former have included the latter.

“There is clearly a deliberate strategy by Hillary’s media surrogates to spend the entire month of October drip-dripping a Trump-behaving-badly story every 5-7 days, and if the media get there way, we won’t talk about anything else.”

Correct.

#6 Comment By Ken Zaretzke On October 13, 2016 @ 5:26 pm

[10]

#7 Comment By Pogonip On October 13, 2016 @ 5:45 pm

Hi Fran,

I had that conversation too!

ME: My father would never do that.
JACKASS: He would and he has.
ME: I’ve known my father 45 years. How long have you known him?

My father was human and had his flaws, but he also knew there were things that civilized people simply don’t do.

#8 Comment By kijunshi On October 13, 2016 @ 6:09 pm

For what it’s worth, as a Millennial liberal female, I actually don’t think all this sexual assault (and come on guys – you all know the accusations are true – just as true as those against Bill Clinton) is the most concerning thing about Trump’s value system. That would be the Central Park 5 case. DNA evidence exonerates the accused, and Trump still thinks they’re guilty?? What does he think law and order and JUSTICE are???

But nevertheless, this whole national conversation is absolutely fascinating, and I’m mostly glad we’re having it, craven politics aside. Some thoughts:

1) You know, I had occasionally wondered how accurate the accusations that America has a “rape culture” were. Welp, debate solved, rape culture it is! Agreed that some of the responses here could be textbook examples.

2) Boy is it satisfying to see Trump reaping the results of his lifetime treatment of women so fruitfully. Boy oh boy oh boy. I hope the fallout from this bankrupts him.

3) Men – and a few ladies – it is unsightly to try to defend your candidate by slandering assault victims. It was unsightly in the Clinton days and unsightly now. The proper defense is, of course, that the issues at hand are more important than the sexual proclivities of the candidate, and that he is efficient enough at solving those issues that the lesser evil must be tolerated. Bill Clinton, at the time, had a reasonable case that could be made along these lines. It does not justify rape, of course, but it does make it understandable. I have not seen a single argument EVER made that Trump, as a person, is skilled at ANYTHING his supporters might reasonably expect. He is entirely a battering ram of vengeance against the establishment, and his supporters will be among the first hit by the debris.

4) There is a silver lining of hope here. Bill Clinton was not taken down by molesting women, but Trump might be. Perhaps all the vicious molesters out there, who have sailed through life without punishment thanks to their gender and money, will sleep uneasy? More to the point, perhaps the type of man who would assault a woman will not, for many years to come, be put forth for any political position with national scrutiny. Young Bills, crushed in their cradle. I can’t be too sad about this. A hope too far is that we could keep these men away from positions of any social respect – but more work is needed. A good goal, and rather bipartisan too.

#9 Comment By creekmama On October 13, 2016 @ 7:00 pm

So here’s the deal. If Trump is elected, the president is a sexual predator. If Clinton is elected, the husband of the president is a sexual predator.

These people are a disgrace–all of them. Plain and simple. They do not care about women. They care about our votes. They won’t get mine.

For the record, I am a former liberal. The Dems lost me at Monica Lewinski.

#10 Comment By Pepi On October 13, 2016 @ 8:21 pm

[BlairBurton says: October 13, 2016 at 11:38 am
For the men on this thread who do not recognize the problem of Trump’s treatment of women – and Rod does, to his credit – here in a nutshell is an eloquent description of just why women are angry. And I expect that your wives or girlfriends or mothers or daughters or sisters or female colleagues and friends could tell similar stories. Most women can. Including me.
[11]

Thank you for the excellent link!

#11 Comment By Thomas Kaempfen On October 13, 2016 @ 9:28 pm

Rod: What pleasure it must be to see a jackass like Donald Trump get his comeuppance on a national stage, losing the presidency to a woman, in part because women he piggishly mistreated over the years came forward to rat him out. There’s something cosmically just in that.

Yes, schadenfreude is a dish best served cold. He insults everyone: women, Mexicans, Muslims, the disabled, etc. and he finally gets a little taste of it himself. And I love the idea of “comic justice”.

The accusations have only started. Very soon no one will be able to credibly doubt there’s some fire within all that smoke. And then he’ll be done, if he isn’t already.

That said, it’s hard not to wonder if the Clinton campaign somehow orchestrated the timing. Maybe they had these accusers ready to go, but held them back until the general election rather than releasing them during the primaries. It seems unlikely, it’s a little too conspiratorial, and the women do seem to be coming forward independently. But even if the Clintons were somehow controlling the timing, it wouldn’t change how horrible Trump’s behavior has been, and how disqualifying.

#12 Comment By Thomas Kaempfen On October 13, 2016 @ 9:30 pm

It seems I misread Rod; he called it “cosmically just”, not “comically just”, though it is that too, and it’s a funny idea to boot!

#13 Comment By Potato On October 13, 2016 @ 10:31 pm

For some of the men here (you know who you are, and so do we) I can only say with the woman BlairBurton links:

As women have been saying for lord knows how long and as they will continue to chant for much longer still:

We are not your honey.

#14 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On October 13, 2016 @ 11:17 pm

As for terror attacks, I hope you are not hoping for something like that– it renders you despicable beyond words.

Republicans have spent President Obama’s entire second term bemoaning the fact that “Benghazi” was not, after all, the October Surprise they had earnestly hoped for to derail his re-election. A classic case of trying to elect a new people, because the people they have simply didn’t bite.

Only if it’s a sexual assault committed by a Democrat. Other varieties still qualify.

Democrats do not lose office over rape, they are forced to resign when they text revealing photos of themselves to unwilling recipients.

I would like to know how many people up in arms about Donald Trump also oppose North Carolina’s HB2, the bill that restricts public bathroom and facilities use by biological sex?

I object to both Trump and to admitting biologically male bodies into semi-private spaces reserved for biological females, and vice versa. The latter instance is a clear case of the right to privacy being infringed to accommodate the longings generated by a medical inconsistency. Trump has also invaded the right to privacy of those he groped or (perhaps) raped.

The Liberals did exactly this to Clarence Thomas exactly 25 years ago.

Bringing in Anita Hill was stupid. Clarence Thomas’s nomination should have been rejected because he was ignorant of huge areas of the law — as evidenced by his own recollections in his autobiography, My Grandfathers Son.

#15 Comment By Matt On October 14, 2016 @ 12:33 am

I’m amazed at the virtue signalling hypocrites practicing their critical theory on Trump.
If we are truly honest most men and women would have said shameful sexual things about the opposite sex at some stage in their lives.
Sex and the City culture is the norm, women can be just as foul if not more so. These prudish hypocritical stack of pancakes criticising Trump are just gurgling the same Marxist feminist propaganda for political gain.
I coached women’s basket ball teams at catholic colleges, and the foul way they talked about men defied belief.
But in this Marxist feminist saturated, and politically corrected culture, outrage goes only one way.
Trump may be nasty, but so is everyone else in American culture, Trump is just the unvarnished product of our culture.

#16 Comment By Susan On October 14, 2016 @ 12:44 am

Why would Reince want to debate someone who no longer holds that position in the opposing party?

Oh yes I was unclear. I was considering the state of this election and the third debate. In a town hall meeting format, those two would not really debate, but answer to us about their chosen candidates and this election. Of course this would never happen, they aren’t running. We just take whatever they give us. I know DWS is out.

#17 Comment By LouB On October 14, 2016 @ 10:27 am

I spent my youth mired in the counterculture.
Anything that poked a stick in the eye of the entrenched establishment, I adopted with relish. Woke up in my thirties. Now, I am on one of the upper branches of the socioeconomic tree. But strangely, I find more common cause with the viewpoint of the Trump supporters and find the Maoist progressives incredibly repugnant. Je Suis Deplorable!

#18 Comment By EliteCommInc. On October 14, 2016 @ 10:40 am

“So here’s the deal. If Trump is elected, the president is a sexual predator. If Clinton is elected, the husband of the president is a sexual predator.”

Only in the agendized myopic lens of accusation as truth and truth would such a statement have any weight. I suspect, that this is a puddle masquerading as a pond, that will in turn masquerade as a lake to the inevitable masquerade as ocean. In otherwords, hysterical hyperbole to a political end.

“These people are a disgrace–all of them. Plain and simple. They do not care about women. They care about our votes. They won’t get mine.”

I have coached, taught a lot of women, I have even defended women that turned out to be fairly vicious opportunistic beings. One or two actually used my support to come after me. It was bizarre. But I think your feelings are overriding truth. The number of women who experience rape is less than one percent. Some manner of assault might be higher. But if stats tell us anything it tells that the majority of men are neither sexual predators nor defenders of the same. It is disappointing to see just how low the Clinton’s, women of all stripes, and others are willing to go to get their way. I thought things were dark in 2000 but the evidence seems clear, it’s about to get darker and that has nothing to do with Mr. Trump. There’s not a lick of evidence that he is a sexual predator, not even a masher if one understands the term.

“For the record, I am a former liberal. The Dems lost me at Monica Lewinski.”

I am an always conservative and at the time involved in a church and what I found disturbing was hardly that men and women in close proximity had dalliances, but that the matter was handled with such careless, sloppiness salacious exaggeration as to become unreal.

So I support relations outside of marriage – no.

But neither do I support political games of this nature carried out vile in intent and wholly gutterish in its manner. So I feel quite safe and consistent here.

I remain in complete support of Mr Trump

#19 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On October 14, 2016 @ 11:05 am

That said, it’s hard not to wonder if the Clinton campaign somehow orchestrated the timing.

As conspiracy theories go, I’m open to the possibility that Trump has been in the GOP race all along as a stalking-horse for Hillary, a script the two of them dreamed up that would allow him to strut his ego on the national stage for a year, and her to win a race she would almost certainly lose to a more credible GOP candidate.

Then again, maybe Putin put Donald up to it.

#20 Comment By Susan On October 14, 2016 @ 11:18 am

Re. my post above: I’m just looking for someone to blame. To me, voting for either Trump or Hillary Clinton is agreeing that one of them should be our president. I don’t know why we aren’t protesting, except the elite is tight and the left is tight and they manipulate and run our culture so they’ve no reason to. Democrats don’t care who’s on their ticket; they just want to win. This year enough protest votes or boycotting that line on the ticket would make a point. Finally, I won’t blame the individual voter for taking what s/he’s given and voting for Trump or HRC – either side has their brain washed or reasoning even if I don’t agree.

#21 Comment By c matt On October 14, 2016 @ 11:30 am

I am sure some is vengeful voting, but a lot is also self-defense voting. If you think Trump is going to take away your welfare check, then, yes, i can see you voting for Hildebeast. If you think Hildebeast is going to take away your religious freedom, guns, personal property, life, cash, light up the sky with nukes, etc., etc., I can see voting for Trump. Before us lie total destruction and utter annihilation – may we choose wisely.

#22 Comment By grumpy realist On October 14, 2016 @ 12:12 pm

If you want to know why women don’t report being groped/raped:

[12]

#23 Comment By Andrew On October 14, 2016 @ 3:25 pm

So, now that she’s spoken to CNN, this woman with the 1st class cabin masher story, she admits this “octupi sexual assault” went on for, oh, she thinks about FIFTEEN MINUTES. Really? He not only has fast moving tentacles, our Donald, they apparently have some sort of paralyzing agent which puts any comely victim into a immediate rigor mortis-like freeze of immovability so he can touch and feel all he wants. Either THAT, or perhaps the idea that this can be even charitably described as a “sexual assault” was wrong in the first place, and she’s a bit of a classic nutty SJW who saw this long ago and probably until very recently completely forgotten encounter with the future nominee as an opportunity to go chat with the Times?

Donald Trump has plenty wrong with him to have already concluded you didn’t want to vote for him before or to be falling for these October surprise stories to change your mind now, and people should expect more from conservatives.

#24 Comment By Dain On October 14, 2016 @ 4:51 pm

“Though you know who I have no respect for? Feminists and other liberals who justified Bill Clinton acting this way because if they stood on principle, it might help the Republicans. They’re in the same boat as the conservatives today who condemned Bill Clinton but who today defend Trump, because if they stood on principle, it might help the Democrats.”

I was actually convinced by a LEFTY named Stanley Fish that while such behavior may be hypocritical, it’s also pretty much inevitable. All that you have to believe is that in general, your side is better. But most of the argument stems from the crappy limitation of national politics being what it is; two people to preside over 300+ million? You’re pretty much restricted to evil of two lessers.

Here’s the Fish article: [13]

Pretending against all suggestive evidence that your side does it too used was once allowed on the cynical grounds explained above. Nowadays it’s difficult to get away with much, so that only leaves the defense of double standards outlined by Fish.

#25 Comment By creekmama On October 14, 2016 @ 6:20 pm

Elite Comm, I really don’t expect you to consider my opinion to have any weight. We are strangers to each other, so yours doesn’t carry much weight with me either.

Like you, I had made my decision before this latest scandal. For me, this is merely confirmation that I’ve made the right choice. For you, it’s a non-issue.

Like you, I also feel quite safe and consistent. I rejected the Dems because of their defense of Bill Clinton’s behavior. I reject Trump, and I question those who seems too quick to dismiss it.

However, perhaps unlike you, I don’t feel a need to argue about it. I am content to agree to disagree with other conservatives who support Trump. This is a nasty election with very poor choices. At this point, we each need to be settled in his own mind and at peace with his own conscience.

#26 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On October 14, 2016 @ 9:49 pm

If you think Hildebeast is going to take away your religious freedom, guns, personal property, life, cash, light up the sky with nukes, etc., etc., I can see voting for Trump.

For sure, but I have seen no evidence that any of this is true. I have talked to many people who are voting for Trump, for reasons I respect, albeit I think they are wrong. These are not among those reasons.

But strangely, I find more common cause with the viewpoint of the Trump supporters and find the Maoist progressives incredibly repugnant.

Could you explain the difference?

#27 Comment By EliteCommInc. On October 17, 2016 @ 9:39 am

However, perhaps unlike you, I don’t feel a need to argue about it . . . own mind and at peace with his own conscience.

Open discussion is the means by which many people test what they believe. Measure its efficacy and clear their own thoughts on questions.

Most importantly, once settled — serves as foundation for defense and advocacy.

Your subtle bid for me to shut up is roundly rejected. An inability to respond to the content is hardly covered by ‘shut-up.’

I will respond as I see fit not according to the ultimate — “I am woman — be thou silent.”

My conscience is quite clear.