- The American Conservative - https://www.theamericanconservative.com -

Dens Of Iniquity


From a peculiar discussion [2] on an Orthodox Christian listserv, about the moral licitness of mancaves. Let’s listen in:

mancaves generally imply manly sins such as porn, masturbation, excessive drinking or other forms of crudeness. Not sure if a mancave is really appropriate for the Orthodox man.

What would Mr. Panos say? Probably this: Let the peypools who have wrong reeleegion [3] have their onanistic hermitages! Ees not for Greek.


15 Comments (Open | Close)

15 Comments To "Dens Of Iniquity"

#1 Comment By SecularMisanthropist On May 19, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

I thought mancaves had soldering irons, rotary tools, table saws, sheet metal cutters, and welding torches. Plus a few old computers slowly being cannibalized for their parts?

#2 Comment By Noah172 On May 19, 2012 @ 8:06 pm

Monasteries share some similarities with mancaves. Should we assume that the monks are engaging in nothing but debauchery?

And didn’t some ancient monks live in literal caves?

#3 Comment By Dave Dutcher On May 19, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

Fah. If Bruce Wayne can have a batcave, I can have a mancave. I don’t see Mister Smarty-pants Orthodox accusing Bruce Wayne of doing that sin when he heads down to the batcomputer after a long day of fighting crime.

#4 Comment By Sean Nelson On May 19, 2012 @ 11:30 pm

As long as you don’t have a Snap-On Tools calendar on the wall, your soul may yet be safe. ūüėČ

Mine’s mostly guitar parts and gardening supplies, with a couch and TV so that I can witness important cultural events such as the NBA playoffs and Austin City Limits without bothering anyone. ūüėÄ

#5 Comment By Christopher Larsen On May 20, 2012 @ 12:39 am

Mancaves are perfectly fine. They are not about porn or debauchery. They are about video game consoles, wide screen TV’s, a beer fridge (mine is filled with mead and hard cider) fathead posters of your favorite NFL player on the wall, a TV preset to Spike TV etc … They are perfectly fine …¬†

#6 Comment By oldpap1861 On May 20, 2012 @ 1:54 am

One of the reasons I left Orthodoxy for Continuing Anglicanism, Rod, over the “pan-heresy” of mancaves.¬† I read the BCP in mine.

#7 Comment By Tyro On May 20, 2012 @ 9:40 am

Obviously, comments like this reveal more about the author and what’s on his mind than anything else. The implication is that men, even the most domesticated kind such as the suburban husband, is primarily concerned about access to pornography if he ever finds himself in a personal space without outside supervision. Because why else would he have any kind of personal space. (I’m single. My whole home is my mancave)

#8 Comment By The_Ghost_of_Jaybird On May 20, 2012 @ 11:06 am

Is post from the same guy who refuses to shake hands with non-Orthodox Christians, because  of their incessant masturbation? 

See Poe’s Law:


#9 Comment By Charles Cosimano On May 20, 2012 @ 11:13 am

As one of the fundamental teachings of Cosimanian Orthodoxy is that debauchery in all its forms is licit and to be celebrated, obviously the person is wrong.

#10 Comment By JohnE_o On May 20, 2012 @ 11:55 am

Honi soit qui mal y pense

#11 Comment By RodDreher On May 20, 2012 @ 12:14 pm

I do believe so. Poe’s Law, aye.

#12 Comment By Sands77 On May 20, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

My wife¬†loves it when I retreat to my mancave.¬† I’m not sure, and I can’t imagine why,¬†but I think I get on her nerves sometimes.¬†

#13 Comment By Beyng On May 20, 2012 @ 2:09 pm

Mancaves are a stupid concept in general, a sign of the domestication and infantilization¬† of the American male.¬† Most American males used to have the equivalent of “mancaves”: they were called garages and/or yards and/or basement workshops.¬† Useful and necessary, but also occasionally pleasurable, work happened there.¬† Now bourgeois American men retreat to air-conditioned, carpeted rooms to giggle at cat pictures (or nekkid women) on the internet, drink cheap booze, and shoot at fake people on video games while their women pursue similarly bourgeois decadences, presumably in other rooms of the house.

Maybe I’m just jealous because I don’t have my own mancave?¬† My grandfathers had workshops in their basements; my father had a garage and a small corner in the basement where he would make ammunition for hunting.¬† All three of them spent a great deal of leisure time outdoors, whether hunting, gardening, beekeeping, or, in general, maintaining the home.¬† It’s amazing how very manly those activities, which were more or less average in their times, sound today.¬†

#14 Comment By Beyng On May 20, 2012 @ 2:11 pm

¬†So, could you (or Rod) clarify?¬† Is the “mancave” issue really a public and ongoing concern of the Orthodox church?¬† If so, that seems rather silly, in spite of my comment below.¬†

#15 Comment By RodDreher On May 20, 2012 @ 4:26 pm

Oh, Lord have mercy, no, the Orthodox Church has no stance on mancaves, and nobody talks about mancaves as a general rule in Orthodox circles. This is about a particular person and his, um, abiding interests.