Beyond the Mosque
With the debate thus far being wrapped in religious, constitutional and nationalistic rhetoric, whether or not a mosque should be built near Ground Zero should first be a decision for New Yorkers. For years, Vermont kept Wal-Mart out, arguing that the corporate retail chain was simply not an appropriate fit for the rural character of their state. If a majority of New Yorkers feel that a mosque is an inappropriate fit for the site of the 9/11 tragedy, this is not an affront to Islam anymore than forbidding the construction of a porn shop next to an elementary school is an affront to either pornography or primary education. Grown-ups recognize that some things are simply inappropriate and those pushing for the construction of this mosque should grow up and show their neighbors a little respect, as even now the president-who while supporting the supposed “right” to build a mosque near Ground Zero- questions the wisdom of its placement.
It should be noted the extent to which this story is largely a manufactured controversy, when you consider that the proposed mosque would be built two and a half blocks from Ground Zero-which is further than the current mosque just two blocks away and not too far from another mosque that has been in the same neighborhood for years. Perhaps even more interesting is the role conservative talk radio has played in fueling this controversy, with certain hosts insisting that they have no problem with Islam per se, only what certain radical Islamists have done-like the murder of 3,000 innocent civilians on 9/11. I share their sentiment.
Indignation toward foreigners who would dare meddle in other nation’s affairs or kill one’s countrymen is quite natural, and yet so many Americans-particularly conservative talk radio hosts-still cannot comprehend that this understandable hatred is by no means exclusive to them. Did radical jihadists attack America on 9/11 for what we “are”-our “freedom” as George W. Bush insisted and Obama echoes-or specifically for what we “do” on Muslim land and to Islamic people?
Taking credit for the attacks, 9/11 mastermind Osama Bin Laden was very clear about his motivations: “Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed – when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women.” In addition to what many consider an unqualified support for Israel by the U.S., Bin Laden also cited the permanent presence of American troops on the Arabian Peninsula after the Persian Gulf War and sanctions placed on Iraq in the 1990′s, in which over half a million children died-equaling 170 9/11′s. When asked by a 60 Minutes reporter, then Secretary of State Madeline Albright called the deaths caused by U.S. sanctions “worth it.”
Most Americans don’t hate Islam-they simply hate what certain radical Islamists did to us on 9/11. Likewise, most who subscribe to Islam don’t hate America, but do hate the multiple tragedies that have been visited upon them by the United States, far exceeding the destruction of 9/11. There was a reason Iranians-who despite their leadership would be some of the best natural allies for the United States in the Middle East-marched in the streets, holding candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11. There was also a reason Iraqis danced in the streets. Our “freedom” had absolutely nothing to do with either.
If Americans find the presence of a symbol of Islam near Ground Zero unseemly, imagine how Islamists view permanent occupation of their own land by a country they see as committing as many, if not more, tragedies? If this proposed mosque in NYC is ominous and insensitive, how do you think Iraqis feel about the Green Zone in Baghdad and is their distaste not justified on the same grounds? By and large, most Muslims are not jihadists but polls have shown that many at least understand what motivates radical jihad. By and large, most Americans are not anti-Islam, but many still understand what motivates their countrymen to be angry about the possibility of this new mosque-an anger that also energizes support for endless and unlimited foreign intervention in the name of 9/11, worsening and widening an already vicious circle. And as Americans opposed to building the mosque at Ground Zero continue to insist that they don’t hate Islam, only what some do in its name, they would do well to recall or educate themselves as to what their government has done and continues to do in America’s name-forever fueling a needless hatred that will continue to cut both ways.
Great article, JAck. As a libertarian, I am appalled that the builders gave into the crowd; they bought the property, they had the right to build whatever they wanted. It really shows how little respect for the rights of others that has developed in our so-called “land of the free”. In disagreement with you, I don’t think New Yorkers have any right to tell someone what he may do on property he has bought, any more than I believe that any other authority has to either.
However, you touch upon a topic that has once more become taboo in our country-funny, how in times of crisis criticism becomes taboo-namely suggesting that the 9/11 attacks were not wholly driven by religious fervor, though that no doubt was one factor. The religious fervor was the product of our meddling in the Middle East. We created the radical Islamist monster.
Thank you Jack Hunter! What the top Republican establishment needs to understand is that not all Tea Party folks are pro-war or believe the initial 9-11 investigation. We are diverse and most are independent thinkers.
We Constitutionalist not Neo-conservatives.
So, our tolerant society is to tolerate a religion whose basic precept is intolerance? It’s like Lenin’s saying that capitalists will sell us the rope we will use to hang them.
Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf of the Cordoba House will not divulge the source of the $100 million plus it will take to construct the building. I suspect that this funding would dry up if this community center/mosque were to be built 30 blocks north of its proposed location. This edifice would be a symbol of the triumph of Islam over the corrupt American mammon.
And yes, let’s get out of the middle east quickly and permanently.
Thanks for a great article.
Whether conservative or liberal (as I am), you’d think that certain American values would not be subject to dispute. These include: a) religious freedom (not war against religion by us); b) America should be the home of the brave (not the fearful); and c) reality.
Aside from the strip club, Starbucks and other mosques located near the “sacred grounds” at “Ground Zero,” 28 Muslim Americans were victims of the attacks by radicals calling themselves Muslim. Following the logic of calling the former World Trade Center site as “sacred” what better way to honor those victims than by erecting a Mosque near the site>? Unfortunatelyi, the building we are talking about is neither a mosque or near the site.
This is, by far, the stupiest story of the year, bar none. Even “death panels” cannot top this one for being low down and idiotic.
America, come out of your hiding places and start acting like you have a clue!
Amen Alan. A-freakin’-men.
If one defended Rand Paul when he was being criticized by Rachel Maddow, on the basis of private property rights, then it would be a bit hypocritical to not support the right to build the mosque, because it is the owner’s private property and he can do what he pleases. That is the whole point of PRIVATE property. The morality issue is another thing, but that should not rule over private property rights, at least not in a free society like ours is supposed to be.
That being said, as always, I completely agree with Jack’s take on how our intervention creates these radicalists; were there no military intervention, there would possibly not have been an attack on 9-11, therefore no one would care much about a Muslim equivalent of a YMCA built 2.5 blocks from Ground Zero.
Good piece Jack. How about this for a rejoinder to all those outsiders who wish to chime in on the issue: “If you don’t live here, it’s none of your business.”
I would love to hear the Islamic reaction and uproar if ever a radical militant Christian group were to destroy the Burj Al Mamlakah in Riyadh and then 9 years later a privately funded interest proposed the building of a Christian Church two-and-a-half blocks away. Something tells me the Mayor of Riyadh, Abdul Aziz ibn ‘Ayyaf Al Migrin, or King Aziz would not be as polite or accommodating as Mayor Bloomberg or President Obama.
Oh, but wait, that will never happen. Why? Because America is a secular Republic and not a fundamental religious Monarchy based on Sharia that openly supports the subjugation and persecution of non-Islamic influences. That and the fact that most, if not all, Islamic nations either forbid or place strict limitations on land ownership by foreigners.
How ironic that Obama now cites the Constitution as justification for the Mosque when he has circumvented the Constitution to pass unpopular socialist legislation.
Wake up and realize that America is being destroyed from within.
I like the quote that has been making the rounds among my Facebook friends: “The US has been building ground zeros near mosques around the world for decades.”
Very substantial article, but your thesis is heavily flawed and maybe even ignorant to your own point. You wrote:
“Grown-ups recognize that some things are simply inappropriate and those pushing for the construction of this mosque should grow up and show their neighbors a little respect, as even now the president-who while supporting the supposed ‘right’ to build a mosque near Ground Zero- questions the wisdom of its placement.”
1.) Your use of “grown-ups” carries the false assumption that the group’s erection of the cultural center is “inappropriate.” Common sense is nothing more than a collective knee-jerk reaction, it isn’t reasonable and therefore cannot supply the weight to meet a burden of proof.
2.) Most Manhattanites do not support using the coercive arm of the State to prevent the erection of the cultural center.
3.) Even if the majority of them did, this isn’t even a freedom of religion question, but one of property rights. It’s the question that conservative supporters of the State’s coercive arm to prohibit the “Ground Zero Mosque” conveniently ignore. This isn’t surprising as conservatism results in blind nationalism to some degree — most widespread is that being born on ‘this’ dirt instead of ‘that’ dirt decides your natural rights. Where authority figures choose to be wrong and use force to violate rights never justifies the rights violation, no matter how many individuals within some arbitrary proximity to the event support the rights violation.
Your intro assumes that tyranny of the majority is justifiable when it conforms to your knee jerk reaction on what you feel is appropriate. Unfortunately, this is completely ignorant of what actually is inappropriate: the use of force to prevent a legitimate property owner to build a place for non-aggressive assembly. Unfortunately, your feelings as to what is and is not appropriate are served up as objective truism to support eminent domain, the Big Brother National Surveillance State and even aggressive pre-emptive wars.
Mr. Hunter, this is, quite purely and simply, the most INTELLIGENT video that I’ve ever seen! Two thumbs up, wishing I had MORE thumbs!
Brilliant!
Leave it to the New Yorkers, huh Avenger?
Ok, will you leave it to the 80,000+ New Yorkers who have signed the petition demanding a new, independent investigation of the events of 11 Sept 2001, including many family members of victims, survivors, and first responder heroes — many of whom are still suffering from debilitating illnesses and diseases primarily because they were lied to by the government and told that the air at Ground Zero was “safe to breathe”?
I wouldn’t be surprised if no answer is given – because the question does not fit with the politically-correct style (that is, on the subject of 9/11) of the “Southern Avenger” and the American Conservative magazine, and it conflicts with the official religious-like Myth that 19 Arab Muslims with boxcutters “collapsed” three (3) steel-framed high rises with two (2) aircraft and penetrated the defenses of the U.S. Military Command Center (Pentagon) all without anything resembling an adequate response to protect the country.
http://nyccan.org/signatories.php
For all the Kool-Aid drinkers that think putting a mosque at the site of 911 is not symbolic for the Islamic terrorists around the globe (and for the silent Muslim population that does not denounce them):
The Saudi Arabian city of Mecca is building the biggest clock in the world — a massive 1,983-foot tower sporting four timekeeping faces each 151 feet in diameter — with the goal of displacing Greenwich Mean Time as the world’s central time zone.
The clock will don text reading “in the Name of Allah.” Islamic scholars argue the clock ought to replace Greenwich Mean Time as the world standard, making Mecca “the true center of the earth.”
So….is Obama just another Kool-Aid drinker or ?????
Islam is a retrograde, fascisitic ideology, and I do not want another mosque to be built in NYC or anywhere else in America.
If it’s a manufactured controversy, why even comment on it? Why not just make a 45 second Youtube that says, in effect, “This whole controversy was made up by right-wing radio and is not worth commenting on.” Is that the default liberal position? Yes. It also happens to be the correct one.
Talk about not pleasing anyone, you got the libertarians arguing this as a matter of property rights (with which I agree), the “conservatives” arguing that the mosque is a symbol of Islamic triumph, the liberals talking about religious freedom, and the conspiracy theorists still droning on about 9/11 the inside job.
For fucks sake people, the main point of the editorial is not that its right or wrong to build the mosque. But that American imperialism is just as bad as any Islamic chauvinism we think we see in America. Maybe if we tried to pull the timber from our eyes we could easier understand the splinter in theirs.
As an American I am appalled by the opposition to the Cordoba Center. Are people out of their minds? Strip away opinions (sentimental bullshit and hysteria) and we’re looking at a situation where we are saying that a certain religious (and ethnic) minority does not have the same rights as other citizens.
@ Alan and X-E
spot on and that’s all there is to be said about the matter.
Never mind that this Imam was all but an employee of the Feds and who lent himself to pro-war propaganda. Never mind that over 100 Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks. Never mind that the Pentagon, also hit on 9.11 has no problem with Muslims praying in that building.
And never mind that the only trial for the “masterminds” of this attack has been that of half a retard with the rest being held in dungeons and tortured going of a decade now (no- nothing at all suspicious about that at all- but let’s just continue right on to pretend that the Fed story line on this is rock solid and airtight.)
Never mind any of that. Muslim Americans must skulk around this country and hide themselves else the super tough guy “men” of the “right” will wet themselves.
That’s right- telling this “Moderate muslim” (to use the bigoted vernacular of the Neocon right) that he can’t build his community center, not a mosque by the way which tells us all we need to know about this lie of a manufactued ‘controversary’ to begin with and those behind it – isn’t telling all Muslims that they are collectively responsible for 9.11.
You know- either this magazine gets off its ass and sides with common decency or you can continue to entertain the moron minds who spout typical Neocon Anti Islamic ignorant bromides that pepper this thread. I thought Obama had no balls. So what is it gonna be? Continue to hold out hope that morons who spout “Islam is a death cult” will “come around” (who do you think employs such people by the way- hint- not Walmart) or are you going to allow limp wristed cowardice like this shameful capitulation to bigotry to be the norm of one of the only sane conservative journals in this country?
Thanks very much for this. You managed to actually change my mind somewhat: I think you’re right that this should be an issue for New Yorkers, and that it’s probably appropriate for the people proposing this centre to withdraw the plans, given the national controversy over it, even if unfair (given the conflict of that existing cultural controversy with the stated purpose of the centre to enhance cultural respect).
Fair dues to you, Mr. Hunter, for writing a genuinely persuasive and intelligent piece of opinion. Now I have to go apologise to all the people I ranted at to “go live in China.”
If it ends up getting built it’s only a matter of time before vandals have their way with it. You just can’t go up against the mob, let alone their sentiments. But one thing I hope to God is that PNAC, JINSA or anything of their ilk never set their feet anywhere near that site. That would further add insult to injury.
If this mosque really is being financed by Islamic extermists… wouldn’t it be the best way possible to ensure that there’s never another 9/11? I mean, if they built their own shrine there, they’re certainly not going to set about blowing it up, are they?
Frankly, I don’t care whether they build the mosque on the site of the World Trade Center or build it a block away or two hundred miles away or whatever. Where I have a problem is when US taxpayer dollars via the State Department are going to fund the imam in charge of this mosque in his trips to the Middle East and elsewhere to raise money to build it.
The imam is being sent on a propaganda tour by the State Department to tell Muslims around the world how wonderful it is to be Muslim in the U.S. He started doing this during the Bush administration, when Karen Hughes was supposed to win hearts and minds. It’s not for fund-raising.
From what I understand, he can’t explain where the money is coming from, because he doesn’t know yet. They don’t have much money at this point.
The problem is with the West create for politiks and the politicians are away from ground realities and american president I always is a sais best idiot.
See Busch started crusade to please Israel and to please neo.cones made 9/11 who was a victim the poor Muslims who are happy only to obey Allah.Thjen so many atributes given fundamentalist, jihadi, convertive,extremist etc. just to pl. the public but ground reality was oil for zero price.
Now thes started mosque problem, first they allowed then now both the parties are retreating as biast Media is feeding Israeli interest not the america. American politics is no more for americans just such dramas are created to befool as they are already the americans.
American people are innocent.
Like Saddam Hussein, the “Ground Zero Mosque” is yet another not-involved entity to be linked to the WTC attack. At this point, you have to conclude that the still-at-large bin Laden is the only Muslim the Spite Right doesn’t blame for 9/11.
Mr. Hunter–well done. There was a time when your conservatism was the hallmark. Sixty years ago, principle were the mainstay of Conservatism. It has been hijacked for purposes that do not serve America’s interests.
If Osama bin Laden had actually ‘taken credit’ for the September 11 attacks, it would be appropriate to understand what motivated him. But the fact is that he not only denied any connection with them, but explicitly condmned them.
In an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat, published on the 28th of September, he said:
“I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. ”
The quotation cited in the article is of doubtful authenticity, extracted from a video, supposedly made for private consumption and allegedly found by US forces, and spoken by someone who doesn’t at all resemble Bin Laden.
“If this proposed mosque in NYC is ominous and insensitive, how do you think Iraqis feel about the Green Zone in Baghdad and is their distaste not justified on the same grounds?”
It should. So, are you saying since the US will never be out of Iraq, Americans (majority, by various polls) should shut up and put up with the mosque near Ground Zero?
Why is this Imam being paid for his trip by the State Department?
Isn’t calling anyone who oppose the mosque “bigots” and “racists” the same tactics that the administration has used against opponents of health care “reform”, Wall Street bailout bill, climate change, any other Obama policy?
Manufactured controversy it is, as you say. Who manufactured it? Not just Fox.
Isn’t it suspicious to you that this particular administration has suddenly adopted the mantra of “Constitutional right”, the very administration busy demolishing the rights under the Constitution?
GW Bush shredded the Constitution to the applause of faux-conservatives who judging from some of these comments are xenophobic authoritarian statists whose preferred form of government is a dictatorship and who hate the Constitution as much as Bush. Obama is a smarter version of Bush with a lot of the same holdovers still in power. Libertarians scorn the fascists and commie wings of the War party and its time for the sane in the Republican party to start a third party or join with the Libertarians and leave the rest to go to Dominionist camp meetings.
The issue of the financing of the Imam’s fundraising trip is simply another manufactured ‘crisis’ geared for grandstanding and bear-baiting to draw in yet another pointless argument to deflect attention away from the root issue of religious tolerance and civil rights. We finance all sorts of faith-based projects; this one is no different.
Would the people of Oklahoma City have a problem with a church being built near the site of the Murrah Building? TImothy McVeigh was officially a Catholic and his skewed brand of religion had about as much relation to Christianity as the 9-11 attackers’ skewed brand of religion had to Islam.
Another situation that occurred to me: would world Jewry resent having a Christian church built near the Holocaust Memorial, or in Jerusalem itself near the Wailing Wall? After, the crimes committed agains the Jews during the 30′s and 40′s were done primarily by- OMG- WHITE EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS !!
Yes, it’s sad when people cherry-pick what values they are going to uphold at any given time.
[...] friend Jack Hunter wrote an article entitled “Beyond the Mosque”, mine is called “Behind the [...]
Art R.: “So, our tolerant society is to tolerate a religion whose basic precept is intolerance?”
What does ‘intolerance’ mean? According to strictly correct Catholic teaching, only the Catholic church has the full means of salvation. All other churches, never mind faiths, are defective. Should we tolerate a religion like that?
Little Alex: “Most Manhattanites do not support using the coercive arm of the State to prevent the erection of the cultural center.”
As a Manhattanite I know this to be correct.