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	<title>Comments on: Cicero. Lincoln. Cheney?</title>
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		<title>By: Thomas O. Meehan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/schwenkler/2009/05/28/cicero-lincoln-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-4300</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas O. Meehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great Comment Mr. Wall.  Cicero gets a bad rap in another way.  I don&#039;t think the Roman state was constituted in such a way to even allow for the detention of large numbers.  With the potential for a hostile army outside the gates and no internal police force, Cicero was forced to make a hasty decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Comment Mr. Wall.  Cicero gets a bad rap in another way.  I don&#8217;t think the Roman state was constituted in such a way to even allow for the detention of large numbers.  With the potential for a hostile army outside the gates and no internal police force, Cicero was forced to make a hasty decision.</p>
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		<title>By: JL Wall</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/schwenkler/2009/05/28/cicero-lincoln-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-4299</link>
		<dc:creator>JL Wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 19:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/schwenkler/?p=3205#comment-4299</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not like Catiline&#039;s co-conspirators was executed by a secret executive order, either.  I mean, we&#039;ve got a record of a Senatorial battle-to-end-all-rhetorical-battles between Cato and a young Julius Caesar over the proper course of action.

And, of course, Clodius&#039; hardly &quot;prosecuted&quot; Cicero; he passed a law of questionable authority decreeing ex post facto punishment for executions without trial.  This wasn&#039;t because he was offended by Cicero&#039;s executions without trial; it was because he was offended that Cicero had rather publicly and rather loudly implied via repeated pun that a) Clodius&#039; sister was &quot;loose&quot; and b) he (Clodius) had been sleeping with her.  Maybe &quot;pun&quot; is the wrong word.  I&#039;m pretty sure he just says it outright a few times.

Regardless of motivation or whether the decree was unchallengably legal, the important parts are this: Cicero recognized that it had been passed in accordance with custom, and obeyed the order.  He went into exile, and while he worked to have the decree revoked through back channels, he didn&#039;t ignore it.  If he didn&#039;t expect to be punished, he accepted that he was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not like Catiline&#8217;s co-conspirators was executed by a secret executive order, either.  I mean, we&#8217;ve got a record of a Senatorial battle-to-end-all-rhetorical-battles between Cato and a young Julius Caesar over the proper course of action.</p>
<p>And, of course, Clodius&#8217; hardly &#8220;prosecuted&#8221; Cicero; he passed a law of questionable authority decreeing ex post facto punishment for executions without trial.  This wasn&#8217;t because he was offended by Cicero&#8217;s executions without trial; it was because he was offended that Cicero had rather publicly and rather loudly implied via repeated pun that a) Clodius&#8217; sister was &#8220;loose&#8221; and b) he (Clodius) had been sleeping with her.  Maybe &#8220;pun&#8221; is the wrong word.  I&#8217;m pretty sure he just says it outright a few times.</p>
<p>Regardless of motivation or whether the decree was unchallengably legal, the important parts are this: Cicero recognized that it had been passed in accordance with custom, and obeyed the order.  He went into exile, and while he worked to have the decree revoked through back channels, he didn&#8217;t ignore it.  If he didn&#8217;t expect to be punished, he accepted that he was.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/schwenkler/2009/05/28/cicero-lincoln-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-4291</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 13:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/schwenkler/?p=3205#comment-4291</guid>
		<description>Neat post. One parallel between Cheney and Cicero holds up pretty well, though: Cataline was a paper tiger, and Cheney&#039;s predictions of catastrophic terrorism have been pretty far off the mark so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neat post. One parallel between Cheney and Cicero holds up pretty well, though: Cataline was a paper tiger, and Cheney&#8217;s predictions of catastrophic terrorism have been pretty far off the mark so far.</p>
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