Comments on: Civic Religion: Still Religion

By: John

John — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:25:59 +0000

Heh. Appreciation of our history and sense of (genuine) patriotic obligation are fine by me, and if there’s a sufficiently light-handed way to mandate that such demands be met by any educational program that receives federal funding, then that’s fine by me. My real objection, which I take it is also Will’s real objection, is to the many ways in which this takes the form of whitewashing or otherwise misconstruing our history, or claiming that things (e.g. voting, devotion to the Cult of the Presidency) are part of what it means to be a good citizen when they in fact aren’t.

By: Will

Will — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:34:43 +0000

Full disclosure: I was the pledge sloucher to end all pledge slouchers, so maybe I’m just over-compensating for my high school antics.

By: Will

Will — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:33:14 +0000

I suppose I take “citizenship” as shorthand for any number of values, including (but not limited to) an appreciation of our history and some sense of obligation to the United States. Lest I be accused of mindless jingoism, I think our current approach is badly flawed, but I don’t think this discredits the entire notion of national assimilation through public schooling. I also find it hard to believe that private schools would fulfill a similar function.

By: John

John — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:44:54 +0000

In what sense is citizenship a “value”? (I don’t mean to snark; it’s an honest question.) And for the record, I don’t have a problem with “national assimilation via schooling” or even with “indoctrination” per se, but it doesn’t seem to me that “creepy civic religion”, as you put it, needs to be a part of that: speaking in English, and teaching kids (non-mythical!) Western and American history, can do the job well enough; there’s no need to lie to them.

Also: I wasn’t a Pledge sloucher, actually, though I plan to raise my kids to be – but you’re right that the twin demographics of anti-democratic libertarians and, well, whatever demographic it is that I fall into (perhaps: America-skeptical anti-democratic postmodern libertarian Christians?) are decidedly not the ones that our education policy is meant to please.

By: Will

Will — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:30:09 +0000

I’m kind of sympathetic to the idea that instilling values like citizenship requires some sort of creepy civic religion. Granted, we’re not very good at providing a balanced account of our own history and traditions, but there’s something to be said for national assimilation via schooling in such a culturally diverse country.

I suspect you and Wilkinson were the guys who slouched or fell asleep during the Pledge of Allegiance. I’m sympathetic to this because I was basically in the same boat, but knee-jerk aversion to indoctrination from a couple of cynical, highly-educated commentators may not be the best guidepost for an education policy that really isn’t aimed at your demographic anyway.