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	<title>Comments on: Five Conservative Classics</title>
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	<description>www.ToryAnarchist.com</description>
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		<title>By: The Socialist</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1765</link>
		<dc:creator>The Socialist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1765</guid>
		<description>So the Tory Anarchist likes Burke the Whig?

More important, while I havn&#039;t read Hayek&#039;s book about serfdom, I have read his &quot;Why I am not a Conservative&quot;...

Although I must say that I find Rothbard&#039;s view that socialism is &quot;achieving liberal ends by conservative means&quot; more interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the Tory Anarchist likes Burke the Whig?</p>
<p>More important, while I havn&#8217;t read Hayek&#8217;s book about serfdom, I have read his &#8220;Why I am not a Conservative&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Although I must say that I find Rothbard&#8217;s view that socialism is &#8220;achieving liberal ends by conservative means&#8221; more interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hardesty</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hardesty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>Ed, I don&#039;t understand your comments.
What libertarian ever said it would be
simple and easy to roll back the state ?
Not Rothbard, not Rand, not Paul, not
Mises. Let&#039;s dispose of that strawman.
We DO live in harrowing times, Chambers
was right about that as well as being right
about world communism.
Burke and Kirk are more problematic
though Kirk opposed conscription and
foreign military intervention. Other parts
of his legacy are more dubious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, I don&#8217;t understand your comments.<br />
What libertarian ever said it would be<br />
simple and easy to roll back the state ?<br />
Not Rothbard, not Rand, not Paul, not<br />
Mises. Let&#8217;s dispose of that strawman.<br />
We DO live in harrowing times, Chambers<br />
was right about that as well as being right<br />
about world communism.<br />
Burke and Kirk are more problematic<br />
though Kirk opposed conscription and<br />
foreign military intervention. Other parts<br />
of his legacy are more dubious.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Lahti</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lahti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1658</guid>
		<description>Ed: &lt;em&gt;Just how Burke or Kirk relates to actual, real-world politics can be hard to say. You may find people who seize on different parts or interpretations of Burke or Kirk on opposite sides of many issues. The more political, individualist interpretations conflict with organic, traditionalist thinking, so which do you choose?&lt;/em&gt;

In his Washington Diarist column, &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/washington-diarist-respect-what&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;With Respect to What&lt;/a&gt;,&quot; in the latest issue of &lt;em&gt;The New Republic&lt;/em&gt;, the paper&#039;s literary editor, Leon Wieseltier, takes up that very question, with his usual rabbinical finesse, already...

&quot;We are in the middle of yet another Burke revival. Jon Meacham, who relies on the identification of trends for his professional survival, ruled so last spring. The evidence is everywhere. Sam Tanenhaus smartly explains the fate of American conservatism as a contest between Burkeans and &#039;revanchists.&#039; David Brooks calls President Obama a Burkean, though Thomas Sowell disagrees. In merry complicity with his own manipulation, Brooks tells of David Axelrod greeting him in the White House with a copy of Reflections on the Revolution in France in his hand. (No doubt liberal columnists are met with On Liberty.) A few years ago Arnold Schwarzenegger invoked a school of political thought that he unforgettably described as &#039;Schwarzenegger, Edmund Burke, [and John] Kennedy.&#039; In a CNN discussion of health care hysteria last summer, Mary Matalin spoke obscurely of &#039;Edmund Burke–type linguistics.&#039; Even Patrick Leahy cited the right&#039;s idol in a speech on government reform. And so on. (I do not include George Will in the fashion, because he really is a Burkean and has the study to prove it.) Many decades ago Kirk noted with some astonishment that &#039;nowadays Burke is praised in such journals as The New Republic.&#039; I am happy, in the spirit of the subject, to conserve the tradition of the house.&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed: <em>Just how Burke or Kirk relates to actual, real-world politics can be hard to say. You may find people who seize on different parts or interpretations of Burke or Kirk on opposite sides of many issues. The more political, individualist interpretations conflict with organic, traditionalist thinking, so which do you choose?</em></p>
<p>In his Washington Diarist column, &#8220;<a href="http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/washington-diarist-respect-what" rel="nofollow">With Respect to What</a>,&#8221; in the latest issue of <em>The New Republic</em>, the paper&#8217;s literary editor, Leon Wieseltier, takes up that very question, with his usual rabbinical finesse, already&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;We are in the middle of yet another Burke revival. Jon Meacham, who relies on the identification of trends for his professional survival, ruled so last spring. The evidence is everywhere. Sam Tanenhaus smartly explains the fate of American conservatism as a contest between Burkeans and &#8216;revanchists.&#8217; David Brooks calls President Obama a Burkean, though Thomas Sowell disagrees. In merry complicity with his own manipulation, Brooks tells of David Axelrod greeting him in the White House with a copy of Reflections on the Revolution in France in his hand. (No doubt liberal columnists are met with On Liberty.) A few years ago Arnold Schwarzenegger invoked a school of political thought that he unforgettably described as &#8216;Schwarzenegger, Edmund Burke, [and John] Kennedy.&#8217; In a CNN discussion of health care hysteria last summer, Mary Matalin spoke obscurely of &#8216;Edmund Burke–type linguistics.&#8217; Even Patrick Leahy cited the right&#8217;s idol in a speech on government reform. And so on. (I do not include George Will in the fashion, because he really is a Burkean and has the study to prove it.) Many decades ago Kirk noted with some astonishment that &#8216;nowadays Burke is praised in such journals as The New Republic.&#8217; I am happy, in the spirit of the subject, to conserve the tradition of the house.&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>Nice list, but how relevant are the conservative classics right now?  The libertarian idea that one can simply and easily roll back the size of government doesn&#039;t look very practical right now.  So calling for ever more and more Hayek or Mises won&#039;t work.

Conservatives certainly can use Hayek&#039;s arguments against the Democrats, probably there will have to be more liberal mistakes before they&#039;re compelling enough to make people forget the Bush mess.   

Chambers&#039;s twilight mood and sense of desperation  also look overdrawn right now -- the sort of dramatics one wants to avoid right now, and save for truly harrowing times.

Just how Burke or Kirk relates to actual, real-world politics can be hard to say.    You may find people who seize on different parts or interpretations of Burke or Kirk on opposite sides of many issues.  The more political, individualist interpretations conflict with organic, traditionalist thinking, so which do you choose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice list, but how relevant are the conservative classics right now?  The libertarian idea that one can simply and easily roll back the size of government doesn&#8217;t look very practical right now.  So calling for ever more and more Hayek or Mises won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>Conservatives certainly can use Hayek&#8217;s arguments against the Democrats, probably there will have to be more liberal mistakes before they&#8217;re compelling enough to make people forget the Bush mess.   </p>
<p>Chambers&#8217;s twilight mood and sense of desperation  also look overdrawn right now &#8212; the sort of dramatics one wants to avoid right now, and save for truly harrowing times.</p>
<p>Just how Burke or Kirk relates to actual, real-world politics can be hard to say.    You may find people who seize on different parts or interpretations of Burke or Kirk on opposite sides of many issues.  The more political, individualist interpretations conflict with organic, traditionalist thinking, so which do you choose?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Lahti</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1655</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lahti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1655</guid>
		<description>An interesting thought experiment for the more apolitical reader suggests itself in the drafting of a list of twentieth-century classics whose stoic critiques of the progress dogma, and elitist or patrician mien in cultural matters, though broadly &quot;conservative&quot;, bore only an oblique connection, if any, to the politico-economic stripe of conservatism represented above by Hayek, Chambers and even Kirk, steeped as he was in Anglo-American political philosophy. Obviously, from your list, Nock and Weaver serve as portals to this parallel galaxy. I was struck upon discovering my favorite American periodical, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.manasjournal.org/biblio.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MANAS&lt;/a&gt;, back in 2005, whose roots lay in neo-Platonic and &quot;organic&quot; traditions of the sort represented by Thoreau, Tolstoy, Gandhi, and the Theosophical movement, how open it was to friendly consideration of Nock and Weaver, especially the latter, when few among its ostensibly &quot;left&quot; comrades would give either the time of day; its astringent coldness toward, say, the &lt;em&gt;laissez-faire&lt;/em&gt; school of Mises and Hazlitt, as toward the otherwise mutually hostile Buckleyite and Randian schools along the broadly rightward flank &lt;em&gt;tout court&lt;/em&gt;, seemed rooted in an allergy to economics in general, arising from a particular sort of altruist social ethic that found expression in a loose sort of utopian non-Marxist socialism after Bellamy, grafted onto the Thoreau-Tolstoy-Gandhi organic spiritual bent. The paper also gave more sympathetic ink to the prolific corpus of the Spanish elitist philosopher Ortega y Gasset than to virtually any other western philosopher save for Plato, and made much as well over the years of Simone Weil, Albert Camus, Hannah Arendt, Erich Fromm, Joseph Wood Krutch, E.F. Schumacher (&lt;em&gt;&quot;When E.F. Schumacher talks, Small Beautiful people listen...&quot;&lt;/em&gt; - imagined TV advert.) and Wendell Berry, for further hints as to its bookish flavor.

To suggest our more cultural conservative canon, which word we might replace from overuse, we might toss, along with Ortega, the names of T.S. Eliot, George Santayana, Alfred North Whitehead, Josef Pieper, the Southern Agrarians and New Critics, Mencken, Dwight Macdonald, John Lukacs, Jacques Barzun, George Kennan (Lukacs&#039; friendships with Macdonald, Barzun and Kennan are interesting sidelights here), Jacques Maritain, Georges Bernanos, Wendell Berry, E.F. Schumacher, Christopher Lasch, Alasdair McIntyre...who else, O scholars? Anyone who has spent time with the sort of academic/philosophic paperbacks much in vogue in the 1940s and 1950s, many issued through non-university trade publishers, in the wake of the attempted post-totalitarian recovery of cultural values, will have noticed how open mainstream publishing was in those years to a certain type of spiritual &quot;conservatism&quot; issuing from Catholic, Aristotelian, Thomist, and stoic strains alike, kin to the renewed engagement with theology suggested in Protestant circles by Niebuhr, Tillich, Barth, Bultmann, &amp;c. There was also a huge rediscovery of Kierkegaard after WWII as well.

We will now take comments from the floor, the better to join the crickets in our less-than-Greek chorus, aka &lt;em&gt;One Against Thebes&lt;/em&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting thought experiment for the more apolitical reader suggests itself in the drafting of a list of twentieth-century classics whose stoic critiques of the progress dogma, and elitist or patrician mien in cultural matters, though broadly &#8220;conservative&#8221;, bore only an oblique connection, if any, to the politico-economic stripe of conservatism represented above by Hayek, Chambers and even Kirk, steeped as he was in Anglo-American political philosophy. Obviously, from your list, Nock and Weaver serve as portals to this parallel galaxy. I was struck upon discovering my favorite American periodical, <a href="http://www.manasjournal.org/biblio.html" rel="nofollow">MANAS</a>, back in 2005, whose roots lay in neo-Platonic and &#8220;organic&#8221; traditions of the sort represented by Thoreau, Tolstoy, Gandhi, and the Theosophical movement, how open it was to friendly consideration of Nock and Weaver, especially the latter, when few among its ostensibly &#8220;left&#8221; comrades would give either the time of day; its astringent coldness toward, say, the <em>laissez-faire</em> school of Mises and Hazlitt, as toward the otherwise mutually hostile Buckleyite and Randian schools along the broadly rightward flank <em>tout court</em>, seemed rooted in an allergy to economics in general, arising from a particular sort of altruist social ethic that found expression in a loose sort of utopian non-Marxist socialism after Bellamy, grafted onto the Thoreau-Tolstoy-Gandhi organic spiritual bent. The paper also gave more sympathetic ink to the prolific corpus of the Spanish elitist philosopher Ortega y Gasset than to virtually any other western philosopher save for Plato, and made much as well over the years of Simone Weil, Albert Camus, Hannah Arendt, Erich Fromm, Joseph Wood Krutch, E.F. Schumacher (<em>&#8220;When E.F. Schumacher talks, Small Beautiful people listen&#8230;&#8221;</em> &#8211; imagined TV advert.) and Wendell Berry, for further hints as to its bookish flavor.</p>
<p>To suggest our more cultural conservative canon, which word we might replace from overuse, we might toss, along with Ortega, the names of T.S. Eliot, George Santayana, Alfred North Whitehead, Josef Pieper, the Southern Agrarians and New Critics, Mencken, Dwight Macdonald, John Lukacs, Jacques Barzun, George Kennan (Lukacs&#8217; friendships with Macdonald, Barzun and Kennan are interesting sidelights here), Jacques Maritain, Georges Bernanos, Wendell Berry, E.F. Schumacher, Christopher Lasch, Alasdair McIntyre&#8230;who else, O scholars? Anyone who has spent time with the sort of academic/philosophic paperbacks much in vogue in the 1940s and 1950s, many issued through non-university trade publishers, in the wake of the attempted post-totalitarian recovery of cultural values, will have noticed how open mainstream publishing was in those years to a certain type of spiritual &#8220;conservatism&#8221; issuing from Catholic, Aristotelian, Thomist, and stoic strains alike, kin to the renewed engagement with theology suggested in Protestant circles by Niebuhr, Tillich, Barth, Bultmann, &amp;c. There was also a huge rediscovery of Kierkegaard after WWII as well.</p>
<p>We will now take comments from the floor, the better to join the crickets in our less-than-Greek chorus, aka <em>One Against Thebes</em>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Olde Tyme Hardcore &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1651</link>
		<dc:creator>Olde Tyme Hardcore &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1651</guid>
		<description>[...] addendum: Daniel McCarthy offers his own list here.]    Comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] addendum: Daniel McCarthy offers his own list here.]    Comments [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Lahti</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/mccarthy/2009/09/16/five-conservative-classics/comment-page-1/#comment-1648</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lahti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/mccarthy/?p=1368#comment-1648</guid>
		<description>Bravo, lad. Well done.

My obvious favorite from your list, Albert Jay Nock, had one equally obvious advantage denied us lesser and later mortals: he came of age long before there was such a thing as a conservative movement, intellectual or populist. No one who reads his &lt;em&gt;Memoirs&lt;/em&gt; from 1943, and, so lit for the skies, hopes to make of himself a country-fair c. 2009 apprentice, would dye himself in movement vats except for tangential accent, as one dashes cayenne into a stew. If approached by a group of high-school or collegiate Nockians asking you What to Read?, give them each a copy of The Columbia Encyclopedia, a library card, a one-hundred-dollar gift certificate to the best-stocked used bookshop within a fifty-mile radius and a state-resident&#039;s card to the nearest public-university library, and a subscription to The Times Literary Supplement, before clapping them on the back with a hearty &quot;Go to town!&quot; Soon, your Li&#039;l Chips off the Ol&#039; Nock will, among latter-day writers, be on the most intimate terms with, say, the short stories of Tatyana Tolstaya and Harvard&#039;s recent I Tatti library of Renaissance-humanism translations, and when asked their opinion of &quot;Ann Coulter&quot;, will wonder why, of all characters from &lt;em&gt;Silas Marner&lt;/em&gt;, their interlocutors chose one of such wafer-thin import and remark:

&quot;There were women in Raveloe, at that present time, who had worn one of the Wise Woman&#039;s little bags round their necks, and, in consequence, had never had an idiot child, as Ann Coulter had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, lad. Well done.</p>
<p>My obvious favorite from your list, Albert Jay Nock, had one equally obvious advantage denied us lesser and later mortals: he came of age long before there was such a thing as a conservative movement, intellectual or populist. No one who reads his <em>Memoirs</em> from 1943, and, so lit for the skies, hopes to make of himself a country-fair c. 2009 apprentice, would dye himself in movement vats except for tangential accent, as one dashes cayenne into a stew. If approached by a group of high-school or collegiate Nockians asking you What to Read?, give them each a copy of The Columbia Encyclopedia, a library card, a one-hundred-dollar gift certificate to the best-stocked used bookshop within a fifty-mile radius and a state-resident&#8217;s card to the nearest public-university library, and a subscription to The Times Literary Supplement, before clapping them on the back with a hearty &#8220;Go to town!&#8221; Soon, your Li&#8217;l Chips off the Ol&#8217; Nock will, among latter-day writers, be on the most intimate terms with, say, the short stories of Tatyana Tolstaya and Harvard&#8217;s recent I Tatti library of Renaissance-humanism translations, and when asked their opinion of &#8220;Ann Coulter&#8221;, will wonder why, of all characters from <em>Silas Marner</em>, their interlocutors chose one of such wafer-thin import and remark:</p>
<p>&#8220;There were women in Raveloe, at that present time, who had worn one of the Wise Woman&#8217;s little bags round their necks, and, in consequence, had never had an idiot child, as Ann Coulter had.</p>
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