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	<title>Comments on: Pro and Anti</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=pro-and-anti-2</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33990</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=10217#comment-33990</guid>
		<description>A bit off-topic, but Dr. Larison, do you have any observations about the current state of Greece and the (Orthodox) Church there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit off-topic, but Dr. Larison, do you have any observations about the current state of Greece and the (Orthodox) Church there?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33979</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=10217#comment-33979</guid>
		<description>Cool.  I hadn&#039;t read Fleshler&#039;s blog before, so I checked it out.  I read the latest article (on the &quot;myth&quot; of &quot;no partner&quot;), which was wrong of course, but which was at least intelligent, by liberal-American standards.  Left a comment too, ha ha.  I wish more liberal commentators were like this guy.  Thanks for the tip, N.S.

As I&#039;ve said elsewhere, &quot;realist doves&quot; have a golden opportunity if they&#039;d just address Israelis&#039; concerns.  Israelis are very realistic, if not realist; their position is based on a calculation of national interest (security), not on ideology or whatever.  Stephen Walt consistently refuses to do address Israeli concerns; he won&#039;t even &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; about those things.  This Fleshler guy is at least willing to address the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.  I hadn&#8217;t read Fleshler&#8217;s blog before, so I checked it out.  I read the latest article (on the &#8220;myth&#8221; of &#8220;no partner&#8221;), which was wrong of course, but which was at least intelligent, by liberal-American standards.  Left a comment too, ha ha.  I wish more liberal commentators were like this guy.  Thanks for the tip, N.S.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said elsewhere, &#8220;realist doves&#8221; have a golden opportunity if they&#8217;d just address Israelis&#8217; concerns.  Israelis are very realistic, if not realist; their position is based on a calculation of national interest (security), not on ideology or whatever.  Stephen Walt consistently refuses to do address Israeli concerns; he won&#8217;t even <i>think</i> about those things.  This Fleshler guy is at least willing to address the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Norwegian Shooter</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33977</link>
		<dc:creator>Norwegian Shooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 02:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=10217#comment-33977</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a supporter of J Street, I get their emails and participate in some of their online actions. I would encourage everyone to check out their &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jstreet.org/about/about-us&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;website&lt;/a&gt;. But in a nutshell, they describe themselves as pro-Israel and pro-peace. Which nicely frames the traditional Jewish lobby as anti-peace. Daniel describes their view of the traditional lobby well. And great comment on the nature of a hawk - but someday, I hope, that will come back to bite them.

Aaron, you probably already know of the many good American liberal pundits on Israel, but I&#039;ll give you and others a less well-known answer. Dan Fleshler has a blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.realisticdove.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Realistic Dove&lt;/a&gt;, and has written a book, Transforming America&#039;s Israel Lobby. He&#039;s an advisor to J Street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a supporter of J Street, I get their emails and participate in some of their online actions. I would encourage everyone to check out their <a href="http://www.jstreet.org/about/about-us" rel="nofollow">website</a>. But in a nutshell, they describe themselves as pro-Israel and pro-peace. Which nicely frames the traditional Jewish lobby as anti-peace. Daniel describes their view of the traditional lobby well. And great comment on the nature of a hawk &#8211; but someday, I hope, that will come back to bite them.</p>
<p>Aaron, you probably already know of the many good American liberal pundits on Israel, but I&#8217;ll give you and others a less well-known answer. Dan Fleshler has a blog, <a href="http://www.realisticdove.org/" rel="nofollow">Realistic Dove</a>, and has written a book, Transforming America&#8217;s Israel Lobby. He&#8217;s an advisor to J Street.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33972</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=10217#comment-33972</guid>
		<description>I agree about the use of the word &quot;anti-Israel&quot; against people who passionately support  Israel as a Jewish state.  (I assume J-Street is in that category.)  I feel the same when paleos and others call patriotic Americans who support mass immigration &quot;anti-American&quot;.  More than anything it&#039;s just really annoying.  A plague on both your houses.

I haven&#039;t seen much sane liberal or left commentary on Israel at all, except coming out of Israel itself.  Who are the good American liberal pundits to read? As I&#039;ve said before, in North America I think Michael Neumann (who does describe himself as anti-Israel) is among the best there is on the left, but he&#039;s a moral philosopher and his commentary is more philosophical than current eventish.

Other than Neumann, the only place I can think of off-hand for sane, informed, and honest North American commentary on Israel, from any political perspective at all, is...the writings of Paul Gottfried.  He understands Israel better than any other American pundit I&#039;ve read.  Hey, I wonder if anyone at The American Conservative has ever heard of this Gottfried fellow?  Nah, apparently not, because they haven&#039;t  bothered to respond to his critiques of their positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree about the use of the word &#8220;anti-Israel&#8221; against people who passionately support  Israel as a Jewish state.  (I assume J-Street is in that category.)  I feel the same when paleos and others call patriotic Americans who support mass immigration &#8220;anti-American&#8221;.  More than anything it&#8217;s just really annoying.  A plague on both your houses.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen much sane liberal or left commentary on Israel at all, except coming out of Israel itself.  Who are the good American liberal pundits to read? As I&#8217;ve said before, in North America I think Michael Neumann (who does describe himself as anti-Israel) is among the best there is on the left, but he&#8217;s a moral philosopher and his commentary is more philosophical than current eventish.</p>
<p>Other than Neumann, the only place I can think of off-hand for sane, informed, and honest North American commentary on Israel, from any political perspective at all, is&#8230;the writings of Paul Gottfried.  He understands Israel better than any other American pundit I&#8217;ve read.  Hey, I wonder if anyone at The American Conservative has ever heard of this Gottfried fellow?  Nah, apparently not, because they haven&#8217;t  bothered to respond to his critiques of their positions.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/10/17/pro-and-anti-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33969</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Old Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=10217#comment-33969</guid>
		<description>Over at the &lt;i&gt;Pravda&lt;/i&gt; of neoconnery, every elected official who declines an invitation to J-Street is another trophy on the wall, and the occasion for Jennifer Rubin to perform a little &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/129891&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;victory dance&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at the <i>Pravda</i> of neoconnery, every elected official who declines an invitation to J-Street is another trophy on the wall, and the occasion for Jennifer Rubin to perform a little <a href="http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/129891" rel="nofollow">victory dance</a>.</p>
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