Comments on: Disruption And Order

By: Gordianus

Gordianus — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:32:35 +0000

If our experience with Government Programs in the last half century suggests anything, it is that moral hazard in social programs, is always a danger. I think we as a people have a strong tendency to turn anything we participate in, into a racket. This is a universal human tendency but I think we Americans as optimistic opportunists have this impulse in spades. The social ills we created while trying to stave off “Greater Social Ills,” are killing us.

By: Sean S.

Sean S. — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:05:06 +0000

I don’t think anyone has problems with aspirations, or looking up to role models or ideals. But the means in which those ideals are enforced is up to debate. And obviously the bigger question is I think, does helping individual members of society through a variety of government programs in an attempt to curb possible larger social ill’s introduce a moral hazard on people’s choices?

By: gsmart

gsmart — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:34:22 +0000

Actually Daniel, I think the thing about Palin and her family situation that pissed most people off was that here was a person who represented a political tradition of invoking “traditional values” whose own family failed to live up to the lofty demands that she and other cultural conservatives would make on the rest of America.

It just looked like sheer hypocrisy. Spend less time worrying about whether my kid is being taught abstinence, and more time wondering whether your own damn daughter is practicing what you preach.

By: redscott

redscott — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:41:10 +0000

I guess what you’re advocating for is a European-style Christian Democratic solution that argues for economic assistance to those who need it on the basis of conservative values like family, stability, order, etc. Konrad Adenauer would certainly approve. I’ve been hoping, as a liberal Dem, that our “liberal” leaders would use this rhetoric in the service of economic aid to socially conservative but financially strapped folks. Still waiting. The plutocrats control both our parties (Paulson? Geithner? the difference is…..what?).

By: Gordianus

Gordianus — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:37:33 +0000

“Voting is aspirational. We vote for the society we want, not the one we inhabit. Who are the most loyal members of fundamentalist churches? Are they paragonâ€™s of virtue and stability? Quite often they are recovering drug addicts, women who deeply regret an abortion – they are born again and have come home. They crave what they lack.”

This is a truly excellent point. Frum’s instrumental thinking here is transparent. The point is to gain power. If that means pandering to religious hicks, then that’s what he’ll recommend. If the path to power runs through yuppyville instead, that’s fine as well. Ideas, principles, people are all expendable. It’s politics without content practiced by operators without morals.

This line is unintentionally funny, reflecting as it does a mind abstracted from everyday reality. “The socially conservative downscale voter is increasingly becoming a mirage â€“ and a Republican politics based on that mirage will only lead us deeper into the desert.” Can he not see that the economic policies of his old boss has turned that mirage into a reality. The economy is in free fall, and there will be plenty of “downscale votes” by November.

By: el_longhorn

el_longhorn — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:40:22 +0000

“One place where Frumâ€™s analysis breaks down entirely is in the assumption that family instability and having children out of wedlock make people less likely to vote for a social conservative platform, when there is good reason to believe that it is precisely the instability and insecurity in private life that attract many voters to a social conservative message.”

Excellent point. Voting is aspirational. We vote for the society we want, not the one we inhabit. Who are the most loyal members of fundamentalist churches? Are they paragon’s of virtue and stability? Quite often they are recovering drug addicts, women who deeply regret an abortion – they are born again and have come home. They crave what they lack.

By: rawshark

rawshark — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:56:01 +0000

Does anyone believe that Bristol’s boyfriend would have ever proposed if Sarah wasn’t running for VP? Keep in mind which party she was representing before you answer. Gotta put on that face for the public.

By: Sean S.

Sean S. — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:57:23 +0000

The connection between social and economic chaos are real, and while I imagine that our ideal visions of society are vastly differently, I think there are tangible things that government can do that can strengthen society on an economic level that would have far broader implications than say, a “healthy marriage” campaign would (as an example). Being told to have a healthy marriage, and being able to pay bills on time, are significantly different things, yet the latter has a much larger impact on eventual divorce than the former.

Thats one example, but I think across the board, economic and health stability produce far more sustainable changes that any kind of bully pulpit move can.