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	<title>Comments on: Ideology Of National Security</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=ideology-of-national-security</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29924</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29924</guid>
		<description>If the tactic is unjust or otherwise immoral, yes it can be addressed without lookig at broader purposes. But you continue cheerleading for your brand of pragmatism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the tactic is unjust or otherwise immoral, yes it can be addressed without lookig at broader purposes. But you continue cheerleading for your brand of pragmatism.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29923</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29923</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a tactic with strategic implications. You can&#039;t address the tactic by itself, but only in the context of overall strategic goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a tactic with strategic implications. You can&#8217;t address the tactic by itself, but only in the context of overall strategic goals.</p>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29913</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29913</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I have mixed feelings about it, feeling itâ€™s justified to some degree in some cases, but not a wise thing to do regularly and commonly. But itâ€™s very much a tactical issue, not a strategic one.&lt;/i&gt;

No, it isn&#039;t. It is a strategic one, considering the possible blowback in Pakistan, and how that affects the theater of operations. And it&#039;s not only a tactical issue, but a moral and political one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have mixed feelings about it, feeling itâ€™s justified to some degree in some cases, but not a wise thing to do regularly and commonly. But itâ€™s very much a tactical issue, not a strategic one.</i></p>
<p>No, it isn&#8217;t. It is a strategic one, considering the possible blowback in Pakistan, and how that affects the theater of operations. And it&#8217;s not only a tactical issue, but a moral and political one.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29912</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29912</guid>
		<description>Obama is rather hawkish on Pakistan, and not opposed to going after Bin Laden or high Al Qaeda figures operating in Pakistan. But it&#039;s not clear that he wants to make it a commonplace battlefield strategy. I have mixed feelings about it, feeling it&#039;s justified to some degree in some cases, but not a wise thing to do regularly and commonly. But it&#039;s very much a tactical issue, not a strategic one.

The issue of Karzai is part of a larger, strategic issue of how to approach the whole business of fighting in Afghanistan, and the signals being given that we might support a unifed opposition party that wins the next elections suggests something about our overall diplomatic strategy. Military strategy comes next, as a subset of diplomacy, and tactic come after that, as a subset of military strategy. So a sound way to change things must begin at the level of basic diplomatic strategy, not ground level military tactics. The fact that Obama seems to understand this is good, and we will just have to see how this ends up translating on the ground as a tactical change. In other words, it&#039;s less than a week, give the man a chance to develop a new strategy from the top down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama is rather hawkish on Pakistan, and not opposed to going after Bin Laden or high Al Qaeda figures operating in Pakistan. But it&#8217;s not clear that he wants to make it a commonplace battlefield strategy. I have mixed feelings about it, feeling it&#8217;s justified to some degree in some cases, but not a wise thing to do regularly and commonly. But it&#8217;s very much a tactical issue, not a strategic one.</p>
<p>The issue of Karzai is part of a larger, strategic issue of how to approach the whole business of fighting in Afghanistan, and the signals being given that we might support a unifed opposition party that wins the next elections suggests something about our overall diplomatic strategy. Military strategy comes next, as a subset of diplomacy, and tactic come after that, as a subset of military strategy. So a sound way to change things must begin at the level of basic diplomatic strategy, not ground level military tactics. The fact that Obama seems to understand this is good, and we will just have to see how this ends up translating on the ground as a tactical change. In other words, it&#8217;s less than a week, give the man a chance to develop a new strategy from the top down.</p>
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		<title>By: nyx</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29911</link>
		<dc:creator>nyx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29911</guid>
		<description>If Obama&#039;s team was so Machiavellian and was just waiting for the right time to pounce to change military policy in Afghanistan, pray why are his aides talking about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-ready-to-cut-karzai-adrift-1513407.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;replacing Hamid Karzai &lt;/a&gt;now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Obama&#8217;s team was so Machiavellian and was just waiting for the right time to pounce to change military policy in Afghanistan, pray why are his aides talking about <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-ready-to-cut-karzai-adrift-1513407.html" rel="nofollow">replacing Hamid Karzai </a>now?</p>
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		<title>By: nyx</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29910</link>
		<dc:creator>nyx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29910</guid>
		<description>I am unaware of the point in time where Obama was campaigning against missile strikes in Pakistan. If I remember correctly in the debates, he was consistently hawkish on Pakistan (he outhawked McCain) and was advocating more missile strikes in the Northwest Frontier. Obama is not serious about causalities in Pakistan and that is obvious to anyone who has followed his statements. I don&#039;t think he is going to change any military policy dramatically  especially the drone attacks, which to be fair to him, he has never given any indicator of changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am unaware of the point in time where Obama was campaigning against missile strikes in Pakistan. If I remember correctly in the debates, he was consistently hawkish on Pakistan (he outhawked McCain) and was advocating more missile strikes in the Northwest Frontier. Obama is not serious about causalities in Pakistan and that is obvious to anyone who has followed his statements. I don&#8217;t think he is going to change any military policy dramatically  especially the drone attacks, which to be fair to him, he has never given any indicator of changing.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29909</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29909</guid>
		<description>I agree with Tedschan, not srv. Obama was certainly aware of the standing orders, but would not have been briefed on any particular operation. Clearly, he didn&#039;t want to immediately issue orders to the military right off the bat forbidding them from continuing this operation. Is it really hard to see why not? It would sure look pretty ham-handed of him to immediately interfere with the details of the military&#039;s operations. To be done right, it&#039;s got to be part of an complete overhaul of the military&#039;s approach in Afghanistan. Now, maybe he will still approve of these kinds of missions, but even if he won&#039;t, he&#039;s not going to step in right away and countermand in-progress operations like this. So it&#039;s not terribly indicative of how he will deal with this sort of thing. One has to recognize the delicacy of a new President countermanding military operations. It&#039;s by no means the same sort of thing as ordering the end of all torture. And it would have a huge political blowback if done this way. It has to be handled much more delicately and diplomatically with full consideration of the overall strategy in Afghanistan through the whole of the military leadership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Tedschan, not srv. Obama was certainly aware of the standing orders, but would not have been briefed on any particular operation. Clearly, he didn&#8217;t want to immediately issue orders to the military right off the bat forbidding them from continuing this operation. Is it really hard to see why not? It would sure look pretty ham-handed of him to immediately interfere with the details of the military&#8217;s operations. To be done right, it&#8217;s got to be part of an complete overhaul of the military&#8217;s approach in Afghanistan. Now, maybe he will still approve of these kinds of missions, but even if he won&#8217;t, he&#8217;s not going to step in right away and countermand in-progress operations like this. So it&#8217;s not terribly indicative of how he will deal with this sort of thing. One has to recognize the delicacy of a new President countermanding military operations. It&#8217;s by no means the same sort of thing as ordering the end of all torture. And it would have a huge political blowback if done this way. It has to be handled much more delicately and diplomatically with full consideration of the overall strategy in Afghanistan through the whole of the military leadership.</p>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29907</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 06:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29907</guid>
		<description>srv:
&lt;i&gt;You missed the point here. Whatever sliver of difference you think there is between mainstream Democrats and Republicans on FP is mostly manufactured in the media or your imagination. Progressives did complain about Obamaâ€™s stance on the bombings last summer.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, I don&#039;t think there is much difference between cheerleaders for both major parties. The question was more rhetorical than actual, since very few Democratic cheerleaders read this blog. An easy shot at supporters of President Obama, if you will.

&lt;i&gt;Well, he probably got on the phone after it happened. But the idea that he would be briefed ahead of time on every little action in the war there is unlikely. Maybe someone will ask him about it and we will get some clarification. But really, give him a break, especially in trying to get a grasp from the inside on how to conduct the war up there. Itâ€™s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.&lt;/i&gt;

conradg

Briefed ahead of time? Perhaps not. But being aware of standing orders and such? How could he not be? So, this is not simply a question of &quot;learning how to conduct the war&quot; as if it&#039;s merely about being &#039;pragmatic&#039; and finding out what works. It&#039;s a question pertaining to the sovereignty of another country and what is just, especially when such actions can be taken as acts of war by the aggrieved party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>srv:<br />
<i>You missed the point here. Whatever sliver of difference you think there is between mainstream Democrats and Republicans on FP is mostly manufactured in the media or your imagination. Progressives did complain about Obamaâ€™s stance on the bombings last summer.</i></p>
<p>Oh, I don&#8217;t think there is much difference between cheerleaders for both major parties. The question was more rhetorical than actual, since very few Democratic cheerleaders read this blog. An easy shot at supporters of President Obama, if you will.</p>
<p><i>Well, he probably got on the phone after it happened. But the idea that he would be briefed ahead of time on every little action in the war there is unlikely. Maybe someone will ask him about it and we will get some clarification. But really, give him a break, especially in trying to get a grasp from the inside on how to conduct the war up there. Itâ€™s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.</i></p>
<p>conradg</p>
<p>Briefed ahead of time? Perhaps not. But being aware of standing orders and such? How could he not be? So, this is not simply a question of &#8220;learning how to conduct the war&#8221; as if it&#8217;s merely about being &#8216;pragmatic&#8217; and finding out what works. It&#8217;s a question pertaining to the sovereignty of another country and what is just, especially when such actions can be taken as acts of war by the aggrieved party.</p>
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		<title>By: srv</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29906</link>
		<dc:creator>srv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29906</guid>
		<description>&gt; Itâ€™s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.

If you think Obama is that stupid, then he&#039;s just setting himself up for a Somalia Moment.  I&#039;d give him more credit than letting the military bomb a sovereign country without approval.

&gt; Whereâ€™s the outrage among his supporters?

You missed the point here.  Whatever sliver of difference you think there is between mainstream Democrats and Republicans on FP is mostly manufactured in the media or your imagination.  Progressives did complain about Obama&#039;s stance on the bombings last summer.

And Daniel, my own thanks for mainstreaming this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Itâ€™s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.</p>
<p>If you think Obama is that stupid, then he&#8217;s just setting himself up for a Somalia Moment.  I&#8217;d give him more credit than letting the military bomb a sovereign country without approval.</p>
<p>&gt; Whereâ€™s the outrage among his supporters?</p>
<p>You missed the point here.  Whatever sliver of difference you think there is between mainstream Democrats and Republicans on FP is mostly manufactured in the media or your imagination.  Progressives did complain about Obama&#8217;s stance on the bombings last summer.</p>
<p>And Daniel, my own thanks for mainstreaming this.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29905</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29905</guid>
		<description>tedschan,

Well, he probably got on the phone after it happened. But the idea that he would be briefed ahead of time on every little action in the war there is unlikely. Maybe someone will ask him about it and we will get some clarification. But really, give him a break, especially in trying to get a grasp from the inside on how to conduct the war up there. It&#039;s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tedschan,</p>
<p>Well, he probably got on the phone after it happened. But the idea that he would be briefed ahead of time on every little action in the war there is unlikely. Maybe someone will ask him about it and we will get some clarification. But really, give him a break, especially in trying to get a grasp from the inside on how to conduct the war up there. It&#8217;s going to take a few months for a clear strategy to emerge, including the policy on this kind of action.</p>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29904</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29904</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;to be fair to Obama he neither ordered nor approved of them. &lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a rather sorry excuse--Obama surely has not been ignorant of what the U.S. military has been doing in Pakistan, and the Secretary of Defense and the rest of the chain of command is only a phone call away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>to be fair to Obama he neither ordered nor approved of them. </i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a rather sorry excuse&#8211;Obama surely has not been ignorant of what the U.S. military has been doing in Pakistan, and the Secretary of Defense and the rest of the chain of command is only a phone call away.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29903</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29903</guid>
		<description>Regarding the Pakistani strikes, to be fair to Obama he neither ordered nor approved of them. They are part of an ongoing military operation approved of by Bush that doesn&#039;t stop simply because there is a new President. I&#039;m sure Obama will review it and decide if it suits his policies in the region. He&#039;s certainly said he&#039;s not categorically opposed to such things, but we don&#039;t know if he wants them to be normal military strategy either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Pakistani strikes, to be fair to Obama he neither ordered nor approved of them. They are part of an ongoing military operation approved of by Bush that doesn&#8217;t stop simply because there is a new President. I&#8217;m sure Obama will review it and decide if it suits his policies in the region. He&#8217;s certainly said he&#8217;s not categorically opposed to such things, but we don&#8217;t know if he wants them to be normal military strategy either.</p>
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		<title>By: conradg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29902</link>
		<dc:creator>conradg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29902</guid>
		<description>In relation to the matter of Obama continuing Bush&#039;s overreach of executive power, I&#039;d refer you to this article in Politico describing Obama&#039;s hiring of the three top legal critics of Bush&#039;s administration to staff his Office Of Legal Council, and his voe to abide by the rule of law. These are the people who say the rule of law limits the President&#039;s powers for more than previous Presidents have stretched it.

â€œThey have alarmingly narrow views of executive power,â€ said a former Bush aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Full article here:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17895.html

Do Paleocons not welcome good news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In relation to the matter of Obama continuing Bush&#8217;s overreach of executive power, I&#8217;d refer you to this article in Politico describing Obama&#8217;s hiring of the three top legal critics of Bush&#8217;s administration to staff his Office Of Legal Council, and his voe to abide by the rule of law. These are the people who say the rule of law limits the President&#8217;s powers for more than previous Presidents have stretched it.</p>
<p>â€œThey have alarmingly narrow views of executive power,â€ said a former Bush aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.</p>
<p>Full article here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17895.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17895.html</a></p>
<p>Do Paleocons not welcome good news?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29898</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29898</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Howard and Terry, for the kind remarks.  I had seen Rod link to the post on his own blog, but hadn&#039;t seen the editorial until you mentioned it.  I&#039;m glad to see that the argument and Bacevich&#039;s ideas are getting additional coverage at DMN.

&quot;Whereâ€™s the outrage among his supporters?&quot;

I have given up asking that question.  Then again, I&#039;m not sure most of his supporters were ever offended by the idea of launching strikes into Pakistan against Pakistan&#039;s wishes.  Once he came out in favor of it last August, most of the pro-Obama bloggers I was reading were touting this as proof that Obama was &quot;strong&quot; and hawkish and so on.  Violating another state&#039;s sovereignty doesn&#039;t seem to trouble that many on the left as a matter of principle, so long as some rationalization can be found.  The same is also true of most people on the right, obviously.  Concern about state sovereignty (and international law in general) seems to be inversely proportional to a party&#039;s possession of political power in Washington.  I am probably going to be writing an item on Holbrooke&#039;s appointment in connection with these strikes, so keep an eye out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Howard and Terry, for the kind remarks.  I had seen Rod link to the post on his own blog, but hadn&#8217;t seen the editorial until you mentioned it.  I&#8217;m glad to see that the argument and Bacevich&#8217;s ideas are getting additional coverage at DMN.</p>
<p>&#8220;Whereâ€™s the outrage among his supporters?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have given up asking that question.  Then again, I&#8217;m not sure most of his supporters were ever offended by the idea of launching strikes into Pakistan against Pakistan&#8217;s wishes.  Once he came out in favor of it last August, most of the pro-Obama bloggers I was reading were touting this as proof that Obama was &#8220;strong&#8221; and hawkish and so on.  Violating another state&#8217;s sovereignty doesn&#8217;t seem to trouble that many on the left as a matter of principle, so long as some rationalization can be found.  The same is also true of most people on the right, obviously.  Concern about state sovereignty (and international law in general) seems to be inversely proportional to a party&#8217;s possession of political power in Washington.  I am probably going to be writing an item on Holbrooke&#8217;s appointment in connection with these strikes, so keep an eye out.</p>
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		<title>By: tcowan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2009/01/21/ideology-of-national-security/comment-page-1/#comment-29897</link>
		<dc:creator>tcowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=8176#comment-29897</guid>
		<description>Great article, Daniel.  I agree with Howard that it is a significant post.  It was also cited in the lead editorial of today&#039;s Dallas Morning News, found here:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-daily_24edi.State.Edition1.2e6902c.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Daniel.  I agree with Howard that it is a significant post.  It was also cited in the lead editorial of today&#8217;s Dallas Morning News, found here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-daily_24edi.State.Edition1.2e6902c.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-daily_24edi.State.Edition1.2e6902c.html</a></p>
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