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	<title>Comments on: Apparently, Bribery Is Serious, But Torture Not So Much</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Hereâ€™s why Bush deserves a thousand sho â€¦ &#124; Marriage Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21604</link>
		<dc:creator>Hereâ€™s why Bush deserves a thousand sho â€¦ &#124; Marriage Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21604</guid>
		<description>[...] (Via Eunomia.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Via Eunomia.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Here&#8217;s why Bush deserves a thousand sho &#8230; Talk Islam</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21569</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Here&#8217;s why Bush deserves a thousand sho &#8230; Talk Islam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21569</guid>
		<description>[...] Eunomia.)  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Eunomia.)  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why We Worry &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Partisan witch hunt &#124; To what place or state</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21529</link>
		<dc:creator>Why We Worry &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Partisan witch hunt &#124; To what place or state</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21529</guid>
		<description>[...] officials, including Bush, for violating clear laws on torture and warrantless wiretapping? Daniel Larison wonders the same thing: am I the only one who finds it absolutely crazy that anyone is this concerned about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] officials, including Bush, for violating clear laws on torture and warrantless wiretapping? Daniel Larison wonders the same thing: am I the only one who finds it absolutely crazy that anyone is this concerned about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Greenwald On Moyers</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21414</link>
		<dc:creator>Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Greenwald On Moyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21414</guid>
		<description>[...] and conventional wisdom, while Greenwald is saying something different and important. And, as Larison and others have noted, it is exceedingly depressing that our media is consumed by bribery attempts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and conventional wisdom, while Greenwald is saying something different and important. And, as Larison and others have noted, it is exceedingly depressing that our media is consumed by bribery attempts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sburton</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21333</link>
		<dc:creator>sburton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21333</guid>
		<description>Daniel, with all due respect: there are three obvious reasons why hardly anybody cares about this Senate report:

(1) the alleged complicity of Donald Rumsfeld &amp; other Bush administration officials in &quot;torture&quot; has been hashed over *endlessly* for *years* now, and the Senate report adds nothing of any interest to that discussion.

(2) Rumsfeld is long gone anyway, and the Bush administration is soon going.

(3) One has to be a religious fanatic (of one sort or another) to lose any sleep over Mohamed al-Kahtani getting water-boarded.

But, be all that as it may, the Blago-bama-rahma scandal is another matter entirely.

It might be interesting to see you discuss that scandal on its own...merits...so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, with all due respect: there are three obvious reasons why hardly anybody cares about this Senate report:</p>
<p>(1) the alleged complicity of Donald Rumsfeld &amp; other Bush administration officials in &#8220;torture&#8221; has been hashed over *endlessly* for *years* now, and the Senate report adds nothing of any interest to that discussion.</p>
<p>(2) Rumsfeld is long gone anyway, and the Bush administration is soon going.</p>
<p>(3) One has to be a religious fanatic (of one sort or another) to lose any sleep over Mohamed al-Kahtani getting water-boarded.</p>
<p>But, be all that as it may, the Blago-bama-rahma scandal is another matter entirely.</p>
<p>It might be interesting to see you discuss that scandal on its own&#8230;merits&#8230;so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: truthynesslover</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21330</link>
		<dc:creator>truthynesslover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21330</guid>
		<description>Obamas not even in the whitehouse yet and the republicans cant wait to try to take him down.Any small descretion will do.Remember the Clinton days?I have yet to meet  a republican who has ANY remourse for the witch hunts on the Clintons they feasted on it and believed the most outragous rumors.Sound familiar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obamas not even in the whitehouse yet and the republicans cant wait to try to take him down.Any small descretion will do.Remember the Clinton days?I have yet to meet  a republican who has ANY remourse for the witch hunts on the Clintons they feasted on it and believed the most outragous rumors.Sound familiar?</p>
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		<title>By: tedschan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21327</link>
		<dc:creator>tedschan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21327</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t Kucinich pushing for impeachment for a while back?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t Kucinich pushing for impeachment for a while back?</p>
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		<title>By: Josiwe</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21317</link>
		<dc:creator>Josiwe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21317</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

The reason nobody wants to talk about that report is simple.

It was a formality that confirmed what everyone already knew.

The entire country, with certain exceptions, knew EXACTLY what BushCo was doing, and condoned it from the beginning. Nobody is shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to find out that the government has been torturing Muslims. A blind eye was turned, in the media, in the public, in the government, everywhere. Even those Americans who opposed it did nothing but complain. There were no marches, no organization. Nobody took to the streets. A few people wrote books about it. 

There was a silent contract with the president: do what you have to, and even if it makes us sick to our stomachs, we&#039;ll let it go as long as there is not another 9/11.

Blago did not have the benefit of such an unwritten agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>The reason nobody wants to talk about that report is simple.</p>
<p>It was a formality that confirmed what everyone already knew.</p>
<p>The entire country, with certain exceptions, knew EXACTLY what BushCo was doing, and condoned it from the beginning. Nobody is shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, to find out that the government has been torturing Muslims. A blind eye was turned, in the media, in the public, in the government, everywhere. Even those Americans who opposed it did nothing but complain. There were no marches, no organization. Nobody took to the streets. A few people wrote books about it. </p>
<p>There was a silent contract with the president: do what you have to, and even if it makes us sick to our stomachs, we&#8217;ll let it go as long as there is not another 9/11.</p>
<p>Blago did not have the benefit of such an unwritten agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21313</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21313</guid>
		<description>Steve, obviousy I do think bribery is serious, and I have never said anything here or elsewhere to suggest otherwise.  You delight in invoking this fallacy, but have never made the least effort to demonstrate that I have erred in this way.  If you would like to address the matter at hand, be my guest.  It would be a refreshing change.    

What I am addressing here, as you seem intent on ignoring, is that there is something bizarre and disproportionate in the attention paid to *Obama&#039;s* apparently tenuous connection to Blagojevich&#039;s crimes when compared to the relative lack of attention being paid to a Congressional report that directly implicates high officials in serious crimes.  They&#039;re all serious offenses, but I hope we don&#039;t have to dispute that abusing prisoners and torture are more serious matters than shakedowns and corrupt Illinois pols.  They are all certainly more serious than some vague lack of transparency on the part of someone who is, as far as we know, not involved in any wrongdoing.  The title may not have expressed all this as well as it could have, but the point stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, obviousy I do think bribery is serious, and I have never said anything here or elsewhere to suggest otherwise.  You delight in invoking this fallacy, but have never made the least effort to demonstrate that I have erred in this way.  If you would like to address the matter at hand, be my guest.  It would be a refreshing change.    </p>
<p>What I am addressing here, as you seem intent on ignoring, is that there is something bizarre and disproportionate in the attention paid to *Obama&#8217;s* apparently tenuous connection to Blagojevich&#8217;s crimes when compared to the relative lack of attention being paid to a Congressional report that directly implicates high officials in serious crimes.  They&#8217;re all serious offenses, but I hope we don&#8217;t have to dispute that abusing prisoners and torture are more serious matters than shakedowns and corrupt Illinois pols.  They are all certainly more serious than some vague lack of transparency on the part of someone who is, as far as we know, not involved in any wrongdoing.  The title may not have expressed all this as well as it could have, but the point stands.</p>
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		<title>By: sburton</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21278</link>
		<dc:creator>sburton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21278</guid>
		<description>So bribery *isn&#039;t* serious?

Does the phrase &quot;fallacy of the false alternative&quot; mean anything to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So bribery *isn&#8217;t* serious?</p>
<p>Does the phrase &#8220;fallacy of the false alternative&#8221; mean anything to you?</p>
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		<title>By: rawshark</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21242</link>
		<dc:creator>rawshark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21242</guid>
		<description>&#039;When the vast majority of mainstream media coverage and punditry is obsessing about the other topic, it is not enough that the liberal blogs are doing good work paying attention to these things. &#039;

You mean Liberal media right? Anything not FOX or Rush is liberal, mainstream media or MSM are just euphamisms. How come when the media is focusing (obsessing) on a dem scandal they are mainstream but otherwise they&#039;re liberal? Doublethink? I doubt Rush will be describibg this as liberal media attacking one of their own. Were they liberal during the Clinton impeachment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;When the vast majority of mainstream media coverage and punditry is obsessing about the other topic, it is not enough that the liberal blogs are doing good work paying attention to these things. &#8216;</p>
<p>You mean Liberal media right? Anything not FOX or Rush is liberal, mainstream media or MSM are just euphamisms. How come when the media is focusing (obsessing) on a dem scandal they are mainstream but otherwise they&#8217;re liberal? Doublethink? I doubt Rush will be describibg this as liberal media attacking one of their own. Were they liberal during the Clinton impeachment?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21239</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21239</guid>
		<description>When the vast majority of mainstream media coverage and punditry is obsessing about the other topic, it is not enough that the liberal blogs are doing good work paying attention to these things.  Unfortunately, when it comes to the supply of news reporting and commentary, the former is drowning out the efforts of the latter.  Blagojevich&#039;s scandal is easy to cover because his crimes do not stain the entire system.  People can point and laugh at it as being still something of an aberration, while the torture regime involves so many and was institutionalized as a matter of policy that too few people want to face what it means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the vast majority of mainstream media coverage and punditry is obsessing about the other topic, it is not enough that the liberal blogs are doing good work paying attention to these things.  Unfortunately, when it comes to the supply of news reporting and commentary, the former is drowning out the efforts of the latter.  Blagojevich&#8217;s scandal is easy to cover because his crimes do not stain the entire system.  People can point and laugh at it as being still something of an aberration, while the torture regime involves so many and was institutionalized as a matter of policy that too few people want to face what it means.</p>
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		<title>By: nyx</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21237</link>
		<dc:creator>nyx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21237</guid>
		<description>The sad thing is the difference in degree. Blago is more corrupt than a mobster in the Sopranos but he is openly and blatantly so. The incestuous circle in Washington is corrupt and unresponsive as well, only their corruption is legalized. What Blago is to money, Washington is to power but there is no Fitzpatrick to put him on trial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sad thing is the difference in degree. Blago is more corrupt than a mobster in the Sopranos but he is openly and blatantly so. The incestuous circle in Washington is corrupt and unresponsive as well, only their corruption is legalized. What Blago is to money, Washington is to power but there is no Fitzpatrick to put him on trial.</p>
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		<title>By: les</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21235</link>
		<dc:creator>les</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21235</guid>
		<description>Speaking for myself, part of the non-response is that the news on torture isn&#039;t news, it&#039;s a statement of what has seemed obvious for years.  Outrage over the issue brings responses from boredom to accusations of anti-Americanism or BDS.  The chance that there will be legal follow up seems slight.  What&#039;s the point of speaking up again?  Blago, on the other hand, is a non-issue outside the &quot;liberal MSM,&quot; near as I can tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking for myself, part of the non-response is that the news on torture isn&#8217;t news, it&#8217;s a statement of what has seemed obvious for years.  Outrage over the issue brings responses from boredom to accusations of anti-Americanism or BDS.  The chance that there will be legal follow up seems slight.  What&#8217;s the point of speaking up again?  Blago, on the other hand, is a non-issue outside the &#8220;liberal MSM,&#8221; near as I can tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake - butnottheone</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/12/12/apparently-bribery-is-serious-but-torture-not-so-much/comment-page-1/#comment-21228</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake - butnottheone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/?p=7968#comment-21228</guid>
		<description>Daniel, the whole country is not focused on Blago.  Much of liberal blogistan remains focused on torture and lies and Gitmo, and on and on and on.  But not much attention is paid to that part of the world.

Truthfully, I don&#039;t believe most people are that fascinated with Blago. It&#039;s the press with nothing else to occupy their minds who can&#039;t seem to talk about anything else. Largely because, and just like the many of the Democratic legislators of both houses, they have their own past to get past.  Few people want to turn over too many torture rocks because for many their name might by under one of them. Or a lot of them. In the case of the press, it is because for the most part they didn&#039;t perform their job.  For the congress, it&#039;s because they went along at best and actively approved at worst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, the whole country is not focused on Blago.  Much of liberal blogistan remains focused on torture and lies and Gitmo, and on and on and on.  But not much attention is paid to that part of the world.</p>
<p>Truthfully, I don&#8217;t believe most people are that fascinated with Blago. It&#8217;s the press with nothing else to occupy their minds who can&#8217;t seem to talk about anything else. Largely because, and just like the many of the Democratic legislators of both houses, they have their own past to get past.  Few people want to turn over too many torture rocks because for many their name might by under one of them. Or a lot of them. In the case of the press, it is because for the most part they didn&#8217;t perform their job.  For the congress, it&#8217;s because they went along at best and actively approved at worst.</p>
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