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	<title>Comments on: Kmiec</title>
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	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Pococurante</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-18056</link>
		<dc:creator>Pococurante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-18056</guid>
		<description>Those who cannot separate the concept of pro-choice from pro-abortion while insisting on political activism will continue to be manipulated. Sometimes those who see themselves as purely principled people for whom there can be no compromise are simply fearful frustrated fascists.

Obama&#039;s nuance, and it is nuance, is shared by the majority of citizens across party lines. That is why both parties are able to straddle and never resolve the issue one way or the other.

As with state sanctioned murder and murder in self-defense, most people can recognize a moral violation sometimes is still the preferable alternative.  The solution to abortion is not to drive it into a criminal underground. It is rather to make every effort to assure it was never needed in the first place.

I recommend the MST as self-exploration:
http://moral.wjh.harvard.edu/eric1/test/testN.html

Remember the questions are not asking, would you do A or B. Instead they simply ask, which is more purely objectively moral.

Society occasionally must sanction immoral action and that point is when we need our Justice system to weigh the circumstances of the violation.

Anti-Abortion is a nonsensical political position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who cannot separate the concept of pro-choice from pro-abortion while insisting on political activism will continue to be manipulated. Sometimes those who see themselves as purely principled people for whom there can be no compromise are simply fearful frustrated fascists.</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s nuance, and it is nuance, is shared by the majority of citizens across party lines. That is why both parties are able to straddle and never resolve the issue one way or the other.</p>
<p>As with state sanctioned murder and murder in self-defense, most people can recognize a moral violation sometimes is still the preferable alternative.  The solution to abortion is not to drive it into a criminal underground. It is rather to make every effort to assure it was never needed in the first place.</p>
<p>I recommend the MST as self-exploration:<br />
<a href="http://moral.wjh.harvard.edu/eric1/test/testN.html" rel="nofollow">http://moral.wjh.harvard.edu/eric1/test/testN.html</a></p>
<p>Remember the questions are not asking, would you do A or B. Instead they simply ask, which is more purely objectively moral.</p>
<p>Society occasionally must sanction immoral action and that point is when we need our Justice system to weigh the circumstances of the violation.</p>
<p>Anti-Abortion is a nonsensical political position.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17886</link>
		<dc:creator>M.Z. Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17886</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why people have such difficulty understanding Kmiec&#039;s argument.  People are free to disagree with it, but they should understand it.

1)  We have interests, even grave interests, other than abortion.
2)  We have interests in the Supreme Court other than how a judge will rule on a case reversing Roe.
3)  The day after Roe is reversed, almost all states will make abortion a civil right.
4)  Absent public support for ending legal abortion, any laws or rulings that end abortion will only do so temporarily.
5)  There are popular items we can pursue to limit abortion that do enjoy wide public support.  They should be pursued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why people have such difficulty understanding Kmiec&#8217;s argument.  People are free to disagree with it, but they should understand it.</p>
<p>1)  We have interests, even grave interests, other than abortion.<br />
2)  We have interests in the Supreme Court other than how a judge will rule on a case reversing Roe.<br />
3)  The day after Roe is reversed, almost all states will make abortion a civil right.<br />
4)  Absent public support for ending legal abortion, any laws or rulings that end abortion will only do so temporarily.<br />
5)  There are popular items we can pursue to limit abortion that do enjoy wide public support.  They should be pursued.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17870</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17870</guid>
		<description>Or perhaps both the anti-war McCain voters and pro-life voters for Obama are sincere in their views but on balance think that other issues are more important.  There is nothing wrong with deciding your vote on either of these crucial issues but its also possible to put them aside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or perhaps both the anti-war McCain voters and pro-life voters for Obama are sincere in their views but on balance think that other issues are more important.  There is nothing wrong with deciding your vote on either of these crucial issues but its also possible to put them aside.</p>
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		<title>By: General Mobius</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17852</link>
		<dc:creator>General Mobius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 05:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17852</guid>
		<description>Which of the last four Presidents presided over the largest decrease in the abortion rate?  The answer will tell you everything you need to know about which party is more credibly pro-life (which isn&#039;t saying much, but the bar is very, very low at this point).

Also, I think I am owed five tacos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which of the last four Presidents presided over the largest decrease in the abortion rate?  The answer will tell you everything you need to know about which party is more credibly pro-life (which isn&#8217;t saying much, but the bar is very, very low at this point).</p>
<p>Also, I think I am owed five tacos.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17848</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 04:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17848</guid>
		<description>Why might Kmiec think the way he does?

1.  Sperm and unfertilized eggs are just as alive as a fertilized egg.  There is no constitutional basis for assigning personhood to the last but not the former.  Nor, for that matter, is there a biblical one.  In fact, the 14th amendment to the Constitution on its face requires a person to be born.

2.  A constitutional amendment to assign personhood to a single-cell fertilized egg would certainly fail, once the public understood that the consequences of that decision would be to prohibit all abortions except when continuing the pregnancy would likely kill the mother, most IVF and all embryonic stem-cell research.

3.  Overturning Roe would likely launch a cultural war that conservatives would lose.

4.  There is nothing small-government about the current pro-life movement.

5.  The party that&#039;s trying to reduce unwanted pregnancies, unintended miscarriages and early deaths from curable diseases is the Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why might Kmiec think the way he does?</p>
<p>1.  Sperm and unfertilized eggs are just as alive as a fertilized egg.  There is no constitutional basis for assigning personhood to the last but not the former.  Nor, for that matter, is there a biblical one.  In fact, the 14th amendment to the Constitution on its face requires a person to be born.</p>
<p>2.  A constitutional amendment to assign personhood to a single-cell fertilized egg would certainly fail, once the public understood that the consequences of that decision would be to prohibit all abortions except when continuing the pregnancy would likely kill the mother, most IVF and all embryonic stem-cell research.</p>
<p>3.  Overturning Roe would likely launch a cultural war that conservatives would lose.</p>
<p>4.  There is nothing small-government about the current pro-life movement.</p>
<p>5.  The party that&#8217;s trying to reduce unwanted pregnancies, unintended miscarriages and early deaths from curable diseases is the Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Elvis Elvisberg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17846</link>
		<dc:creator>Elvis Elvisberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17846</guid>
		<description>The GOP does not care about reducing the number of abortions; they care about identifying emotional, peripheral issues such as so-called partial birth abortion, and the silly stunt that was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_alive_baloney.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Born Alive bill&lt;/a&gt;.   Obama has spoken about reducing the number of abortions, which fell during the Clinton years.  It&#039;s not an indefensible argument.  

Kmiec wrote about the GOP&#039;s failure to do anything other than generate heat over the issue, and wrote off the idea of gaining the &quot;fifth vote&quot; to overturn Roe.  Now, you can claim that it&#039;ll be different this term, and I think that&#039;s a reasonable argument.  But it&#039;s hard for me to see why, if you care about the number of abortions performed in this a country with little appetite for Palin-like maximalist pro-life policies, Kmiec&#039;s arguments warrant the condescension and contempt that Douthat offers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The GOP does not care about reducing the number of abortions; they care about identifying emotional, peripheral issues such as so-called partial birth abortion, and the silly stunt that was <a href="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_alive_baloney.html" rel="nofollow">the Born Alive bill</a>.   Obama has spoken about reducing the number of abortions, which fell during the Clinton years.  It&#8217;s not an indefensible argument.  </p>
<p>Kmiec wrote about the GOP&#8217;s failure to do anything other than generate heat over the issue, and wrote off the idea of gaining the &#8220;fifth vote&#8221; to overturn Roe.  Now, you can claim that it&#8217;ll be different this term, and I think that&#8217;s a reasonable argument.  But it&#8217;s hard for me to see why, if you care about the number of abortions performed in this a country with little appetite for Palin-like maximalist pro-life policies, Kmiec&#8217;s arguments warrant the condescension and contempt that Douthat offers.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tomlin</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17844</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tomlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17844</guid>
		<description>Off the main point, there is a question that&#039;s been bothering me for a while. Why is it outrageous to harvest embryonic cells for research, but OK for fertility clinics to destroy embryos outright? I&#039;ve never heard of pro-life groups advocating any legislation on the latter point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off the main point, there is a question that&#8217;s been bothering me for a while. Why is it outrageous to harvest embryonic cells for research, but OK for fertility clinics to destroy embryos outright? I&#8217;ve never heard of pro-life groups advocating any legislation on the latter point.</p>
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		<title>By: ckewinjones@yahoo.co</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/comment-page-1/#comment-17817</link>
		<dc:creator>ckewinjones@yahoo.co</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/11/10/kmiec/#comment-17817</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;... what do pro-lifers have to show for their continued support for the GOP?  Not very much.  Does it make sense to back the other party, where there is even less chance of pro-life concerns being taken seriously?  No, not really.&lt;/i&gt;

No, it does not make sense for pro-lifers to support the other party &lt;i&gt;on pro-life issues&lt;/i&gt;, but that is not the point.  The point is that the demonstrable (nay, blindingly obvious) failure of the GOP to accomplish anything on abortion -- which shows us that the party has &lt;i&gt;zero&lt;/i&gt; commitment to the issue -- &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;removes&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; the abortion issue from the equation.  It is all well and good to refuse to support pro-abortion candidates (I suppose it makes one feel better about oneself), but the fact that, in the political arena, abortion is a lost cause and the pro-life cause has no real champions means that it is self-defeating to allow the abortion issue to control one&#039;s political choices.

Now, even after abortion is removed from the equation, it is questionable for a conservative to support someone as liberal as Senator Obama.  However (for me at least), the failure of the Bush administration, and the GOP generally, to display any loyalty whatever to genuine conservative principles also removes loyalty to conservatism from the political equation.  Let&#039;s face it, the GOP did not present us with a recognizably conservative candidate in this election.

So, if no conservative candidate was available, and no pro-life candidate was available, what basis was left on which to choose how to vote?  I submit that the need to &lt;i&gt;punish&lt;/i&gt; Bush and the Republicans for abandoning the pro-life cause, and for betraying conservatism and the Constitution, became the overriding consideration.  And only a vote for Obama -- not a conscience-salving vote for a third party or abstention -- would contribute to that punishment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230; what do pro-lifers have to show for their continued support for the GOP?  Not very much.  Does it make sense to back the other party, where there is even less chance of pro-life concerns being taken seriously?  No, not really.</i></p>
<p>No, it does not make sense for pro-lifers to support the other party <i>on pro-life issues</i>, but that is not the point.  The point is that the demonstrable (nay, blindingly obvious) failure of the GOP to accomplish anything on abortion &#8212; which shows us that the party has <i>zero</i> commitment to the issue &#8212; <i><b>removes</b></i> the abortion issue from the equation.  It is all well and good to refuse to support pro-abortion candidates (I suppose it makes one feel better about oneself), but the fact that, in the political arena, abortion is a lost cause and the pro-life cause has no real champions means that it is self-defeating to allow the abortion issue to control one&#8217;s political choices.</p>
<p>Now, even after abortion is removed from the equation, it is questionable for a conservative to support someone as liberal as Senator Obama.  However (for me at least), the failure of the Bush administration, and the GOP generally, to display any loyalty whatever to genuine conservative principles also removes loyalty to conservatism from the political equation.  Let&#8217;s face it, the GOP did not present us with a recognizably conservative candidate in this election.</p>
<p>So, if no conservative candidate was available, and no pro-life candidate was available, what basis was left on which to choose how to vote?  I submit that the need to <i>punish</i> Bush and the Republicans for abandoning the pro-life cause, and for betraying conservatism and the Constitution, became the overriding consideration.  And only a vote for Obama &#8212; not a conscience-salving vote for a third party or abstention &#8212; would contribute to that punishment.</p>
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