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	<title>Comments on: In Need Of Better Elites</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=in-need-of-better-elites</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Piatak</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/comment-page-1/#comment-15806</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Piatak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/#comment-15806</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

The problem is that our current elite class is, not to put too fine a point on it, worthless:  http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/our_worthless_elites/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>The problem is that our current elite class is, not to put too fine a point on it, worthless:  <a href="http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/our_worthless_elites/" rel="nofollow">http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/our_worthless_elites/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/comment-page-1/#comment-15756</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/#comment-15756</guid>
		<description>As you say, &quot;There is no guarantee [that practical knowledge] is a better basis for setting policy&quot; than is theoretical knowledge in any particular case.  But similarly, there is no guarantee that theoretical knowledge is better, nor is there any guarantee that the current mix of knowledge used for policy isn&#039;t under-weighted on practical.  So, really, you have given no basis for thinking that JSP is wrong.

In answering the question &quot;What is my house worth,&quot; an economist with fancy PhD, like me, is likely to build a complex statistical model based on a large database of home sales.  An appraiser is likely to look around my neighborhood for comparable houses which have sold recently and then to use his informed judgment to adjust those prices for differences between my house and those.  It is not obvious which approach is better, and slapping down the appraiser because he has no degree, doesn&#039;t understand my model, and has never thought abstractly about where house prices come from is nasty and stupid.

But policy analysis is not merely a technocratic exercise.  Which policy is best depends both on what is the good and on what is the relationship between policy choices and bringing about the good.  JSP suspects, rightly, that elites disagree with him on the former and also suspects, sometimes rightly and sometimes not, that elites&#039; ways of knowing the latter are inferior to his own.
 
The real problem with Republican anti-elitism is not that it undersells the epistemic superiority of elite ways of knowing but that it applies with a vengeance to Republican positions.  Who is more likely to be right about the prospects for Iraqi democratization or the morality of the bailout, Sergeant Sixpack or Messrs Frum, Kristol, and Kudlow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you say, &#8220;There is no guarantee [that practical knowledge] is a better basis for setting policy&#8221; than is theoretical knowledge in any particular case.  But similarly, there is no guarantee that theoretical knowledge is better, nor is there any guarantee that the current mix of knowledge used for policy isn&#8217;t under-weighted on practical.  So, really, you have given no basis for thinking that JSP is wrong.</p>
<p>In answering the question &#8220;What is my house worth,&#8221; an economist with fancy PhD, like me, is likely to build a complex statistical model based on a large database of home sales.  An appraiser is likely to look around my neighborhood for comparable houses which have sold recently and then to use his informed judgment to adjust those prices for differences between my house and those.  It is not obvious which approach is better, and slapping down the appraiser because he has no degree, doesn&#8217;t understand my model, and has never thought abstractly about where house prices come from is nasty and stupid.</p>
<p>But policy analysis is not merely a technocratic exercise.  Which policy is best depends both on what is the good and on what is the relationship between policy choices and bringing about the good.  JSP suspects, rightly, that elites disagree with him on the former and also suspects, sometimes rightly and sometimes not, that elites&#8217; ways of knowing the latter are inferior to his own.</p>
<p>The real problem with Republican anti-elitism is not that it undersells the epistemic superiority of elite ways of knowing but that it applies with a vengeance to Republican positions.  Who is more likely to be right about the prospects for Iraqi democratization or the morality of the bailout, Sergeant Sixpack or Messrs Frum, Kristol, and Kudlow?</p>
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		<title>By: kepkanation</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/comment-page-1/#comment-15755</link>
		<dc:creator>kepkanation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/#comment-15755</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed this discussion and Carter&#039;s piece about JSPs and elites, and I agree with you that Carter&#039;s definition of elitism seems unrealistically narrow.  If we&#039;re going to take Joe Six Packism seriously as a way of thought, then, sure, it&#039;s absolutely true that many a JSP will see admission to or attendance at Harvard as a sign of elitism -- but that&#039;s not what&#039;s being debated, at current.  Joe Six-Pack as a term was introduced as a counter to the &quot;existing&quot; &quot;Washington elite.&quot;  Elitism is a constantly shifting boundary for JSPs -- they see, I believe, all of their Washington representatives as being de-facto industry-captured elitists once they hit the ground in Washington.  

So in terms of who has the better foreign policy &quot;experience,&quot; I agree that a JSP will value the just-returned soldier&#039;s advice over a just-graduated FP wonk, and in part for the abstractness of the wonk&#039;s advice and knowledge, but there&#039;s an element of timeliness involved, too -- a soldier&#039;s viewpoint is valuable until he starts to act on it within the system, which necessitates promotion that, through pay raises and increases in stature, also bequeaths elitist status...

Culminating in: a never-ending cycle of intellectual class warfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed this discussion and Carter&#8217;s piece about JSPs and elites, and I agree with you that Carter&#8217;s definition of elitism seems unrealistically narrow.  If we&#8217;re going to take Joe Six Packism seriously as a way of thought, then, sure, it&#8217;s absolutely true that many a JSP will see admission to or attendance at Harvard as a sign of elitism &#8212; but that&#8217;s not what&#8217;s being debated, at current.  Joe Six-Pack as a term was introduced as a counter to the &#8220;existing&#8221; &#8220;Washington elite.&#8221;  Elitism is a constantly shifting boundary for JSPs &#8212; they see, I believe, all of their Washington representatives as being de-facto industry-captured elitists once they hit the ground in Washington.  </p>
<p>So in terms of who has the better foreign policy &#8220;experience,&#8221; I agree that a JSP will value the just-returned soldier&#8217;s advice over a just-graduated FP wonk, and in part for the abstractness of the wonk&#8217;s advice and knowledge, but there&#8217;s an element of timeliness involved, too &#8212; a soldier&#8217;s viewpoint is valuable until he starts to act on it within the system, which necessitates promotion that, through pay raises and increases in stature, also bequeaths elitist status&#8230;</p>
<p>Culminating in: a never-ending cycle of intellectual class warfare.</p>
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		<title>By: tz</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/comment-page-1/#comment-15754</link>
		<dc:creator>tz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/21/in-need-of-better-elites/#comment-15754</guid>
		<description>We have replaced &quot;elders&quot; who have been around - they were probably 24 years old in the streets of a country, went to college, went into business, and know something now that they are middle-aged.  Usually the lessons needed to be learned are those of humility.  Such is the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

The 20 year old &quot;elite&quot; knows much, but not history or how the world works.  He doesn&#039;t think strategically as much as he simply regurgitates his PhD thesis and those of others about what &quot;should&quot; work.

The same thing applies to economics (worse, they read Keynes instead of Mises).  William Sturgis Lind does not come off as an elite, but he knows his stuff.  As does Von Creveld.

There are differences.  Those who graduate from the fancier universities are full of hubris and themselves and their parent&#039;s allowance.  Some are smarter, but perseverance and fortitude tend to count for more in the marketplace (or the battlezone) than raw intellect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have replaced &#8220;elders&#8221; who have been around &#8211; they were probably 24 years old in the streets of a country, went to college, went into business, and know something now that they are middle-aged.  Usually the lessons needed to be learned are those of humility.  Such is the difference between knowledge and wisdom.</p>
<p>The 20 year old &#8220;elite&#8221; knows much, but not history or how the world works.  He doesn&#8217;t think strategically as much as he simply regurgitates his PhD thesis and those of others about what &#8220;should&#8221; work.</p>
<p>The same thing applies to economics (worse, they read Keynes instead of Mises).  William Sturgis Lind does not come off as an elite, but he knows his stuff.  As does Von Creveld.</p>
<p>There are differences.  Those who graduate from the fancier universities are full of hubris and themselves and their parent&#8217;s allowance.  Some are smarter, but perseverance and fortitude tend to count for more in the marketplace (or the battlezone) than raw intellect.</p>
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