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	<title>Comments on: Biden v. Palin (II)</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=biden-v-palin-ii</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: LMaggitti</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14719</link>
		<dc:creator>LMaggitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14719</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m starting to think that the whole debate expectations game is more a reflection of how the media looks at these things, as opposed to how the man on the street looks at them. I have little doubt that, given the format, which is more favorable to Palin than the interview format, Palin will exceed the pitifully low expectations that exist. And the media will, initially at least, indeed spin her performance as &quot;exceeding expectations.&quot;

But how will the public at large view the debate? I&#039;m lousy at predicting that, but I think that there is a chance that the &quot;clueless&quot; meme has (rightfully) taken such strong hold that anything short of a shockingly well informed performance by Palin will merely reinforce the impression that she can&#039;t cut it. Even sans serious gaffes.

At the beginning of the campaign, people were willing to cut her some slack. Aside from her remaining admirers, who are already firm McCain voters, that is no longer true. If she tries to pull the same kind of &quot;the voters don&#039;t care about policy details&quot; crap that she (apparently successfully) deployed in the Alaska debates is not goign to cut it with persuadable voters at this point. (I mean, they DON&#039;T care about policy details, and they don&#039;t necessarily like to hear the same from their politicians. But they DO like to think that their politicians are knowledgeable about those issues.

Or so I hope. Not even so much because I want McCain to lose, but even moreso because I agree with Daniel&#039;s 12:12 post. It would indeed be a devastating indictment of our system if voters were favorably impressed by the kind of minimally coherent performance that appears to be the best that she is capable of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m starting to think that the whole debate expectations game is more a reflection of how the media looks at these things, as opposed to how the man on the street looks at them. I have little doubt that, given the format, which is more favorable to Palin than the interview format, Palin will exceed the pitifully low expectations that exist. And the media will, initially at least, indeed spin her performance as &#8220;exceeding expectations.&#8221;</p>
<p>But how will the public at large view the debate? I&#8217;m lousy at predicting that, but I think that there is a chance that the &#8220;clueless&#8221; meme has (rightfully) taken such strong hold that anything short of a shockingly well informed performance by Palin will merely reinforce the impression that she can&#8217;t cut it. Even sans serious gaffes.</p>
<p>At the beginning of the campaign, people were willing to cut her some slack. Aside from her remaining admirers, who are already firm McCain voters, that is no longer true. If she tries to pull the same kind of &#8220;the voters don&#8217;t care about policy details&#8221; crap that she (apparently successfully) deployed in the Alaska debates is not goign to cut it with persuadable voters at this point. (I mean, they DON&#8217;T care about policy details, and they don&#8217;t necessarily like to hear the same from their politicians. But they DO like to think that their politicians are knowledgeable about those issues.</p>
<p>Or so I hope. Not even so much because I want McCain to lose, but even moreso because I agree with Daniel&#8217;s 12:12 post. It would indeed be a devastating indictment of our system if voters were favorably impressed by the kind of minimally coherent performance that appears to be the best that she is capable of.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14717</link>
		<dc:creator>M.Z. Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14717</guid>
		<description>I think Palin will be viewed favorably coming out of the debate, but I agree with Mr. Larison that a good performance means she has just stopped digging.  Given her high profile follies, no one is going to come out of this thing saying, &quot;My gosh she really is brilliant,&quot; except maybe in the most sarcastic sense possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Palin will be viewed favorably coming out of the debate, but I agree with Mr. Larison that a good performance means she has just stopped digging.  Given her high profile follies, no one is going to come out of this thing saying, &#8220;My gosh she really is brilliant,&#8221; except maybe in the most sarcastic sense possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14714</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14714</guid>
		<description>If that&#039;s so, that is a far more devastating indictment of our entire political system than the problems of &quot;gotcha&quot; journalism.  For years I have heard people complain that debates are too trivial, and now we have an entire party desperately hoping for triviality.  You can almost hear them saying, &quot;Thank goodness our system rewards empty soundbites and vapid answers!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that&#8217;s so, that is a far more devastating indictment of our entire political system than the problems of &#8220;gotcha&#8221; journalism.  For years I have heard people complain that debates are too trivial, and now we have an entire party desperately hoping for triviality.  You can almost hear them saying, &#8220;Thank goodness our system rewards empty soundbites and vapid answers!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DaveA</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14711</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14711</guid>
		<description>&quot;But what does holding her own even mean at this point? That she speaks English in more or less complete sentences? No way.&quot;

Yes way, I think. Your TAS colleague Matt Feeney has a thread up asking how people think the debate will play out. Let me just repeat what I said there:

I think the bar for Palin is now set so low that any performance above the level of â€œdrooling and gibberingâ€ will be scored as exceeding expectations. That will probably be enough to stop the negative impact sheâ€™s had on the ticketâ€™s numbers the last week or two, but not reverse it. Still, stanching the bleeding will be something, after which Palin can be conveniently hustled off to controlled, friendly venues, never to take a question or interview from the media again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But what does holding her own even mean at this point? That she speaks English in more or less complete sentences? No way.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes way, I think. Your TAS colleague Matt Feeney has a thread up asking how people think the debate will play out. Let me just repeat what I said there:</p>
<p>I think the bar for Palin is now set so low that any performance above the level of â€œdrooling and gibberingâ€ will be scored as exceeding expectations. That will probably be enough to stop the negative impact sheâ€™s had on the ticketâ€™s numbers the last week or two, but not reverse it. Still, stanching the bleeding will be something, after which Palin can be conveniently hustled off to controlled, friendly venues, never to take a question or interview from the media again.</p>
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		<title>By: Turbulence</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14710</link>
		<dc:creator>Turbulence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14710</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t understand is why polling organizations ask such ambiguous questions. Do they really fail to think through the implications? Is it really so hard to first ask people how certain they are of their vote and then break out the numbers for people who haven&#039;t yet made up their minds? Or are they smart enough to do all that but feel compelled to fit the whole thing into a media narrative that the debates are super important and must be watched?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t understand is why polling organizations ask such ambiguous questions. Do they really fail to think through the implications? Is it really so hard to first ask people how certain they are of their vote and then break out the numbers for people who haven&#8217;t yet made up their minds? Or are they smart enough to do all that but feel compelled to fit the whole thing into a media narrative that the debates are super important and must be watched?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14706</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14706</guid>
		<description>But what does holding her own even mean at this point?  That she speaks English in more or less complete sentences?  No way.  She has to put a stop to the talk that she doesn&#039;t know what she&#039;s talking about; she has to make at least most of the conservatives who have dubbed her unfit eat their words.  That&#039;s not going to happen, and she will continue to be a distraction and a drag on the ticket.

Turbulence, you&#039;re probably right that this is what the poll result means.  That&#039;s why I don&#039;t quite understand why the debate would be cosidered very important.  When I look at that, it makes it sound as if the debate is critical or decisive in determining a voter&#039;s preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what does holding her own even mean at this point?  That she speaks English in more or less complete sentences?  No way.  She has to put a stop to the talk that she doesn&#8217;t know what she&#8217;s talking about; she has to make at least most of the conservatives who have dubbed her unfit eat their words.  That&#8217;s not going to happen, and she will continue to be a distraction and a drag on the ticket.</p>
<p>Turbulence, you&#8217;re probably right that this is what the poll result means.  That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t quite understand why the debate would be cosidered very important.  When I look at that, it makes it sound as if the debate is critical or decisive in determining a voter&#8217;s preference.</p>
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		<title>By: Turbulence</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14702</link>
		<dc:creator>Turbulence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14702</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I take this to mean that all these people could change their minds based on what happens tonight.&lt;/i&gt;

I have an alternative explanation. It might mean that many of those people already know which way they&#039;re going to vote and expect the debate to confirm they&#039;re the wisdom of their plans. After all, I know exactly how I&#039;m going to vote and I expect the debate tonight will illustrate why my choices are correct, but I don&#039;t plan on changing my vote no matter what happens tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I take this to mean that all these people could change their minds based on what happens tonight.</i></p>
<p>I have an alternative explanation. It might mean that many of those people already know which way they&#8217;re going to vote and expect the debate to confirm they&#8217;re the wisdom of their plans. After all, I know exactly how I&#8217;m going to vote and I expect the debate tonight will illustrate why my choices are correct, but I don&#8217;t plan on changing my vote no matter what happens tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: Freddie</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-14701</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/10/02/biden-v-palin-ii/#comment-14701</guid>
		<description>Honestly Daniel I think the bar has been lowered to such a degree that she can&#039;t help but be seen as having held her own at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly Daniel I think the bar has been lowered to such a degree that she can&#8217;t help but be seen as having held her own at least.</p>
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