Comments on: Starting To Get It http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=starting-to-get-it n. the principle of good order<br /><br /> "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:25:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Turbulence http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14235 Turbulence Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:55:18 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14235 Let me see if I understand your theory here. You are suggesting that there is a large group of people (large enough to be electorally significant) who (1) read Kristof's column often enough to have been exposed to columns about Obama's otherness and (2) are so ignorant that they believe Obama is a muslim while (3) being unlikely to believe that Obama is a muslim in the absence of such columns. Is that right? Do you have any evidence to support this theory? Or is this just a pretty story that sounds good? Let me see if I understand your theory here. You are suggesting that there is a large group of people (large enough to be electorally significant) who (1) read Kristof’s column often enough to have been exposed to columns about Obama’s otherness and (2) are so ignorant that they believe Obama is a muslim while (3) being unlikely to believe that Obama is a muslim in the absence of such columns. Is that right? Do you have any evidence to support this theory? Or is this just a pretty story that sounds good?

]]> By: Roach http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14234 Roach Sun, 21 Sep 2008 23:38:04 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14234 These rumors are rooted in an important reality: he has a foreign-sounding name and purposely changed it to that (from Barry) after carousing with all kinds of freaks, Pakistanis, and Muslims in college. He's alienated, and we all sense it. It's represented not least by his church, his associations with Bill Ayers, and his stupid last name. If he were not so alienated, and his name were Barry, then he'd not be in so much trouble. The prejudice against foreigners running our country is a healthy one, even if in this sense the folk wisdom is based on various demonstrable falsehoods. It's little different than the Black Helicopters mythology of the 90s; it's rooted in a fear of the Other, which is something conservatives should view with delight. These rumors are rooted in an important reality: he has a foreign-sounding name and purposely changed it to that (from Barry) after carousing with all kinds of freaks, Pakistanis, and Muslims in college. He’s alienated, and we all sense it. It’s represented not least by his church, his associations with Bill Ayers, and his stupid last name. If he were not so alienated, and his name were Barry, then he’d not be in so much trouble. The prejudice against foreigners running our country is a healthy one, even if in this sense the folk wisdom is based on various demonstrable falsehoods. It’s little different than the Black Helicopters mythology of the 90s; it’s rooted in a fear of the Other, which is something conservatives should view with delight.

]]> By: DaveA http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14233 DaveA Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:59:38 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14233 I have to agree with Corey and rayrick. Perhaps the progressive-side pushing of Obama's "worldliness" is having some kind of penumbra effect, but all the GOP/conservative types I know are far more likely to cite right-wing BS memes about Obama = Muslim. I haven't heard one talk about how Dems say it's great his dad was a Muslim or that he lived overseas or anything like that. All that's anecdotal, I admit, but as far as I can ell, any "problem" with Obama's background is being generated and pushed exclusively on the right. I have to agree with Corey and rayrick. Perhaps the progressive-side pushing of Obama’s “worldliness” is having some kind of penumbra effect, but all the GOP/conservative types I know are far more likely to cite right-wing BS memes about Obama = Muslim. I haven’t heard one talk about how Dems say it’s great his dad was a Muslim or that he lived overseas or anything like that. All that’s anecdotal, I admit, but as far as I can ell, any “problem” with Obama’s background is being generated and pushed exclusively on the right.

]]> By: conradg http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14231 conradg Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:25:11 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14231 I'm not sure what the solution is here. Should Obama supporters pretend that he is not a black man, that he didn't have a Kenyan father, that he doesn't represent a change of identity with our past? It's certainly true that the positive of Obama's background have a negative spin as well, but pretending there's no "there" there is absurd. People who come to irrational conclusions about Obama's religion are simply demonstrating their dislike of his personal identity and the implications of his Presidency through a form of cognitive dissonance. If the cognitive dissonance comes to an end, it doesn't mean they are going to suddenly like Obama. They are just going to outright dislike him, without feeling some need to invent reasons for it. If Obama didn't represent a change in this respect, there would be no controversy about whether people like this change or not. But there is, because he does represent, at least in symbolic form, a change from our past, both in identity and character. This simply can't be denied, and you can't blame Obama's supporters for not properly hiding these matters in the closet. I’m not sure what the solution is here. Should Obama supporters pretend that he is not a black man, that he didn’t have a Kenyan father, that he doesn’t represent a change of identity with our past? It’s certainly true that the positive of Obama’s background have a negative spin as well, but pretending there’s no “there” there is absurd. People who come to irrational conclusions about Obama’s religion are simply demonstrating their dislike of his personal identity and the implications of his Presidency through a form of cognitive dissonance. If the cognitive dissonance comes to an end, it doesn’t mean they are going to suddenly like Obama. They are just going to outright dislike him, without feeling some need to invent reasons for it. If Obama didn’t represent a change in this respect, there would be no controversy about whether people like this change or not. But there is, because he does represent, at least in symbolic form, a change from our past, both in identity and character. This simply can’t be denied, and you can’t blame Obama’s supporters for not properly hiding these matters in the closet.

]]> By: rayrick http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14226 rayrick Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:39:36 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14226 I'm skeptical about the premise of this article. I think the only folks who still think that Obama is a muslim are the people who are paying so little attention that their opinions are based upon little more than hunch or word of mouth, and a few others who are so devoted to fringe, right wing views that they refuse to absorb any evidence from other sources. The only way that the writings of Obama admirers can have possibly shaped the opinions of either of the groups above is to have somehow contributed to the hunch/word-of-mouth atmospherics around this campaign. It's possible, but I think the smear e-mails that circulated (are circulating?) for months probably had a lot more do with it. That, and the simple reality of the name Barack Hussein Obama. In short, you've got to have virtually no information or a willful disregard for information to be so clueless, and liberal writers are irrelevant to either position. I’m skeptical about the premise of this article. I think the only folks who still think that Obama is a muslim are the people who are paying so little attention that their opinions are based upon little more than hunch or word of mouth, and a few others who are so devoted to fringe, right wing views that they refuse to absorb any evidence from other sources.

The only way that the writings of Obama admirers can have possibly shaped the opinions of either of the groups above is to have somehow contributed to the hunch/word-of-mouth atmospherics around this campaign. It’s possible, but I think the smear e-mails that circulated (are circulating?) for months probably had a lot more do with it. That, and the simple reality of the name Barack Hussein Obama.

In short, you’ve got to have virtually no information or a willful disregard for information to be so clueless, and liberal writers are irrelevant to either position.

]]> By: Corey Mull http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14225 Corey Mull Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:37:58 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/09/21/starting-to-get-it/#comment-14225 This doesn't make any sense. To believe that Obama is a Muslim would require a) a total lack of contact with any media coverage of the man, coverage which has clearly portrayed him as Christian, or b) a hatred so strong of him that people are willing to suspend rationality and look for hidden meanings in birth certificates, old school records, and speeches to find "proof" of his Muslim faith. In neither case does playing down his international ties help dissuade people from thinking that he is a Muslim - because the first group won't see the coverage, and the second won't believe it no matter how factual. Besides, since when did it become the media's job to pander to the ignorant minority by playing down the positive characteristics of a candidate? This doesn’t make any sense. To believe that Obama is a Muslim would require a) a total lack of contact with any media coverage of the man, coverage which has clearly portrayed him as Christian, or b) a hatred so strong of him that people are willing to suspend rationality and look for hidden meanings in birth certificates, old school records, and speeches to find “proof” of his Muslim faith.

In neither case does playing down his international ties help dissuade people from thinking that he is a Muslim – because the first group won’t see the coverage, and the second won’t believe it no matter how factual.

Besides, since when did it become the media’s job to pander to the ignorant minority by playing down the positive characteristics of a candidate?

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