Comments on: The Race To The Bottom (Or The Middle) http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle n. the principle of good order<br /><br /> "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:25:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: AL http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12736 AL Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:47:05 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12736 Good post. When a candidate is exceptionally bad, you're more likely to see a collapse or deflation of partisan spirit rather than defection to the other side. It's a loss of will and interest more than anything else. Sometimes a poor candidate does manage to rally the party and keep it alive: it's the inability to win over undecideds that does the campaign in. Because the party faithful aren't outraged or alienated we don't remember Mondale or Dole as being as disastrous as McGovern or Goldwater were, even though in terms of percentage of the popular vote the difference wasn't that great between Mondale and McGovern or Goldwater and Dole. If McCain loses, he'll likely be seen as another Mondale or Dole: the guy who did the party's work in a bad year. An Obama loss, will be seen as more disastrous. He'll be another Gore or Kerry who let victory slip away. Good post. When a candidate is exceptionally bad, you’re more likely to see a collapse or deflation of partisan spirit rather than defection to the other side. It’s a loss of will and interest more than anything else.

Sometimes a poor candidate does manage to rally the party and keep it alive: it’s the inability to win over undecideds that does the campaign in. Because the party faithful aren’t outraged or alienated we don’t remember Mondale or Dole as being as disastrous as McGovern or Goldwater were, even though in terms of percentage of the popular vote the difference wasn’t that great between Mondale and McGovern or Goldwater and Dole.

If McCain loses, he’ll likely be seen as another Mondale or Dole: the guy who did the party’s work in a bad year. An Obama loss, will be seen as more disastrous. He’ll be another Gore or Kerry who let victory slip away.

]]> By: Josiwe http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12734 Josiwe Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:00:37 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12734 "You might think that there would be a powerful desire for more gridlock and partisanship" I thought you were confused about why this situation persists, when you and I can see it for what it is. I tried to answer that A) the average voter approves of it / sees it differently and B) our media has little to do with educating voters and quite a bit to do with pandering to and reinforcing the preselected ideas of their viewers. All of which is passed along, down one slant or the other, to the Childrens. It takes an unusually skeptical and curious person to either notice the hypocrisy of "bipartisanship" or break with the indoctrination their parents imposed. Extend this perspective a little bit further and you'll see that the same root problem feeds the malaise towards breaking the two party gridlock. The average voter doesn't see it as a problem in the way that political wonks do. What's that old saying about politics and perception? It would probably have been a much more succinct way of responding to your post... “You might think that there would be a powerful desire for more gridlock and partisanship”

I thought you were confused about why this situation persists, when you and I can see it for what it is. I tried to answer that A) the average voter approves of it / sees it differently and B) our media has little to do with educating voters and quite a bit to do with pandering to and reinforcing the preselected ideas of their viewers.

All of which is passed along, down one slant or the other, to the Childrens. It takes an unusually skeptical and curious person to either notice the hypocrisy of “bipartisanship” or break with the indoctrination their parents imposed.

Extend this perspective a little bit further and you’ll see that the same root problem feeds the malaise towards breaking the two party gridlock. The average voter doesn’t see it as a problem in the way that political wonks do.

What’s that old saying about politics and perception? It would probably have been a much more succinct way of responding to your post…

]]> By: JBraunstein http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12725 JBraunstein Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:27:27 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12725 I broke from my parents. Some might call that a "reaction formation" in psycho-speak. I guess to diminish the authenticity and integrity of my convictions as some kind of involuntary reflex response. Pretty arrogant, but less uncomfortable than confronting a challenge to one's beliefs. I broke from my parents. Some might call that a “reaction formation” in psycho-speak. I guess to diminish the authenticity and integrity of my convictions as some kind of involuntary reflex response. Pretty arrogant, but less uncomfortable than confronting a challenge to one’s beliefs.

]]> By: tedschan http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12722 tedschan Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:22:24 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12722 <i>Genetics may play a role.</i> Bah, more reductionism at work. Genetics may play a role.

Bah, more reductionism at work.

]]> By: Doug http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12715 Doug Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:53:15 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12715 The failure to break from our parents' party may say less about our culture than you think. <a href="http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=161975" rel="nofollow">Genetics</a> may play a role. The failure to break from our parents’ party may say less about our culture than you think. Genetics may play a role.

]]> By: Daniel Larison http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12712 Daniel Larison Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:05:25 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12712 That's all very well, except that I haven't made any claims here about the "average American" that differ from what you're saying. I take all of that for granted. I am not really sure what you think my "confusion" is. My "confusion" seems to be that I find this situation to be unacceptable. Bipartisanship in practice is usually the collusion of members of both parties against the public interest. Obviously, members of each party admire and applaud the members of the other party that cave in to them most often on their top priorities, but I am not interested in that aspect of "bipartisanship." That’s all very well, except that I haven’t made any claims here about the “average American” that differ from what you’re saying. I take all of that for granted. I am not really sure what you think my “confusion” is. My “confusion” seems to be that I find this situation to be unacceptable. Bipartisanship in practice is usually the collusion of members of both parties against the public interest. Obviously, members of each party admire and applaud the members of the other party that cave in to them most often on their top priorities, but I am not interested in that aspect of “bipartisanship.”

]]> By: Josiwe http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/comment-page-1/#comment-12710 Josiwe Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:58:18 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/07/29/the-race-to-the-bottom-or-the-middle/#comment-12710 Again, your confusion stems from a lack of insight into the political character of the "Average American". Even educated, sophisticated voters will tend to make the mistake of believing their preferred party's propaganda. As such, conservative voters believe that Republicans are sensible, pragmatic, patriotic Americans who want to go about the business of perfecting our union while the bleeding-heart pie-in-the-sky socialist liberals cockblock the President and the rest of their party at every opportunity. Remember too that they have been taught that this opposition has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with political point-scoring. On the opposite side of the aisle, the same is true. Democrats are the tolerant, rational progressives, and "rethuglicans" the selfish, cruel, materialistic assholes blocking our path to a harmonious future. Thus, "Bipartisanship" does not mean, to the average voter, making fair negotations and painful concessions in an effort to bring about genuine good. It doesn't mean walking a mile in the other guy's shoes. Bipartisanship means the other guys stop being such dicks and let us get on with the job of fixing all these problems, since we're so obviously right and they're so obviously wrong. Unfortunately, many reporters make the same mistake. And too, some of them are intellectually lazy. Again, your confusion stems from a lack of insight into the political character of the “Average American”.

Even educated, sophisticated voters will tend to make the mistake of believing their preferred party’s propaganda. As such, conservative voters believe that Republicans are sensible, pragmatic, patriotic Americans who want to go about the business of perfecting our union while the bleeding-heart pie-in-the-sky socialist liberals cockblock the President and the rest of their party at every opportunity. Remember too that they have been taught that this opposition has nothing to do with principles and everything to do with political point-scoring.

On the opposite side of the aisle, the same is true. Democrats are the tolerant, rational progressives, and “rethuglicans” the selfish, cruel, materialistic assholes blocking our path to a harmonious future.

Thus, “Bipartisanship” does not mean, to the average voter, making fair negotations and painful concessions in an effort to bring about genuine good. It doesn’t mean walking a mile in the other guy’s shoes. Bipartisanship means the other guys stop being such dicks and let us get on with the job of fixing all these problems, since we’re so obviously right and they’re so obviously wrong.

Unfortunately, many reporters make the same mistake. And too, some of them are intellectually lazy.

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