That’s the case that the neocons make–BHO’s a secret dove–but if you believe that, I can sell you some options on Iranian real estate–cheap.

Or you can say he’s a doubleplusgood ducktalker and wears nice suits, so wotthehell. In weaker moments I find this argument the most tempting.

My father always used to say, “Throw the rascals out! Elect the new rascals!” but the new rascals will give us domestic policies we can do without, and more interventions albeit with a multilateral flavor.

Perhps the best we can do is stand athwart history and scream, “No ****in’ way!”

Of course no one wants to defend McCain. His position is indefensible. Then again, Obama has no real proposal to set our own house in order, either, and his refusal to look at and admit our own flaws is almost as myopic as the entire political class’. He isn’t changing the mindset, even if he follows through on his promise to withdraw forces.

We will be saying: No, we don’t want empire.

Perhaps it’s too late for us to change our minds about this empire dealie-bob, but it’s our only hope to survive as a nation of ideals.

To say this is a matter of “a single issue” is just blinkered. It’s kind of a big deal! Interesting that seemingly no one on this board wants to defend McCain on his terms (victory, etc). Obama is assumed to be right about the war, even by his critics here. And yet his “rightness” is also generally assumed to be unequal to the huge task ahead of him, of putting our nation back on track:

“…the Iraq War represents the ultimate manifestation of the American expectation that the exercise of power abroad offers a corrective to whatever ailments afflict us at home. Rather than setting our own house in order, we insist on the world accommodating itself to our requirements. The problem is not that we are profligate or self-absorbed; it is that others are obstinate and bigoted. Therefore, they must change so that our own habits will remain beyond scrutiny.”

This may be the best critique I’ve ever read of the “mindset” that got us into the war in Iraq. Thanks for introducing it to me.

I understand the visceral loathing of the GOP and McCain, but how you get from there to where his conservative admirers are still remains a mystery to me.

Or his liberal admirers, for that matter. I understand that he leans very much to the left – that is your whole point here, of course – but the unwillingness to call a spade a spade when it comes to things like Iraq, Israel, FISA, ethanol, etc. etc. etc. is going to end liberal pundits up in the same place as the conservatives who were so happy to have a Republican president that they refused to speak out against Bush. Obama is just another politician, albeit one who’s better looking and a more polished speaker than the rest.

Operative word here is obviously “pushed,” but I find it funny that people analyze this trend as anything more than anti-Bush and anti-neoconservative resentment. What about “Obama’s arms” is inviting to a conservative, whether he/she is a Republican or not?

Mr. Larison, your analysis that this trend is nothing more than an accident of the American 2-party system is a more accurate assement of this phemonemon than any other I can think of. Obama supporters will spin this as a component of the political “moment” and a result of Sen. Obama’s charisma and conservative temperment. It’s really just a symptom of the poisonous American electoral system.

“Moreover, as I have said in the past, Obama saying all the wrong things on taxes, economic policy, and health care doesn’t bother me for the same reason that Republicans saying all the right things on taxes, economic policy, and health care doesn’t excite me anymore–you can’t believe a word any politician says. From Woodrow Wilson, to FDR, to George W. Bush, they all said one thing as candidates and did exactly the opposite once they got elected. Ronald Reagan was the exception to the rule.”

If there’s more than disillusionment with Bush behind this, it’s that Bill Clinton’s administration turned out quite differently from what conservatives expected. Probably that had a lot to do with the Republican Congress elected in 1994, but the conclusion that nothing in politics is what it seems is hard for some people to shake.

I don’t think hopes that Obama will be conservative are any more well founded nor will be met anymore than those same hopes for Bush the younger.

And there is the crux of it. You believe him or you don’t. Even some of his strongest supporters argue that his plan to leave some forces in Iraq is essentially a cover story: they “know” he is really committed to getting out of Dodge just as soon as it is logistically possible.