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	<title>Comments on: On Lukacs And Buchanan (II)</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii</link>
	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Roach</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11191</link>
		<dc:creator>Roach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11191</guid>
		<description>If Lukacs is a crank, then we are enemies of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Lukacs is a crank, then we are enemies of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11181</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Old Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11181</guid>
		<description>Your points are well taken. Groupscules hurling anthemas are, alas, common enough in certain circles, and worst of all, tend to be quite boring.

It occurs to me that this debate about WWII (and WWI, necessarily part of the discussion) gains energy from the fact that advocates of this or that intervention constantly hurl references to Chamberlain&#039;s umbrella and Lindbergh in lieu of analysing the present situation with care. For some interventionists, its Groundhog Day, 1938, every day, and until the eloquent bulldog Churchill came aboard to right the ship, Britain was ruled by limp-wristed Germanophile toffs who were taken in by, and refused to stand up to, Hitler.Those who support a bit of prudence and caution are simply Nevilles without the accent.

The rhythmic repetition of this claimed analogy can easily lead anti-interventionists to question not only whether today&#039;s jihadis equal 1938&#039;s Nazis, but whether the reduction of pre-WWII politics to the image of a Neville and his umbrella is historically accurate, and whether one can imagine alternate histories based on different strategies. 

In the end, of course, everyone lost WWII, except the Americans, who kept their powder dry the longest, and perhaps the Soviet &lt;a&gt;nomenklatura&lt;/a&gt;, whose country was shattered but came to dominate Centural Europe for 44 years. 

For me, it&#039;s easier to make Woodrow Wilson the villain of the piece who set the dominoes falling in the name of his absurd idealism. It&#039;s easy to denounce Wilson. Understanding 1938 and all that requires nuance.

Perish that thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your points are well taken. Groupscules hurling anthemas are, alas, common enough in certain circles, and worst of all, tend to be quite boring.</p>
<p>It occurs to me that this debate about WWII (and WWI, necessarily part of the discussion) gains energy from the fact that advocates of this or that intervention constantly hurl references to Chamberlain&#8217;s umbrella and Lindbergh in lieu of analysing the present situation with care. For some interventionists, its Groundhog Day, 1938, every day, and until the eloquent bulldog Churchill came aboard to right the ship, Britain was ruled by limp-wristed Germanophile toffs who were taken in by, and refused to stand up to, Hitler.Those who support a bit of prudence and caution are simply Nevilles without the accent.</p>
<p>The rhythmic repetition of this claimed analogy can easily lead anti-interventionists to question not only whether today&#8217;s jihadis equal 1938&#8242;s Nazis, but whether the reduction of pre-WWII politics to the image of a Neville and his umbrella is historically accurate, and whether one can imagine alternate histories based on different strategies. </p>
<p>In the end, of course, everyone lost WWII, except the Americans, who kept their powder dry the longest, and perhaps the Soviet <a>nomenklatura</a>, whose country was shattered but came to dominate Centural Europe for 44 years. </p>
<p>For me, it&#8217;s easier to make Woodrow Wilson the villain of the piece who set the dominoes falling in the name of his absurd idealism. It&#8217;s easy to denounce Wilson. Understanding 1938 and all that requires nuance.</p>
<p>Perish that thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11171</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11171</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Chris.  I liked your response over at Takimag, and I plan to follow up more over there.  Not only would it be dreary to start pushing litmus tests on these things, but it also makes no sense to then pick fights with Lukacs&#039; broader body of work along with making specific objections to the claims he makes in the review.  

Those who want to throw stones at the idea of anti-anticommunism, for example, should ponder what that kind of thinking must mean for conservatives who object to the more reckless aspects of modern anti-jihadism.  There is a sober sort of anticommunism that informed the &quot;doctrine&quot; of containment, and then a more reckless sort that saw the fall of South Vietnam as integrally linked to U.S. national security.  Likewise, I think there can be sober anti-jihadism that recognises the reality and evil of the threat without jumping on board with every call for intervention in the Near East or elsewhere.  

Also, what can it mean to call John Lukacs a &quot;crank&quot;?  If he&#039;s a crank, God knows what that makes the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Chris.  I liked your response over at Takimag, and I plan to follow up more over there.  Not only would it be dreary to start pushing litmus tests on these things, but it also makes no sense to then pick fights with Lukacs&#8217; broader body of work along with making specific objections to the claims he makes in the review.  </p>
<p>Those who want to throw stones at the idea of anti-anticommunism, for example, should ponder what that kind of thinking must mean for conservatives who object to the more reckless aspects of modern anti-jihadism.  There is a sober sort of anticommunism that informed the &#8220;doctrine&#8221; of containment, and then a more reckless sort that saw the fall of South Vietnam as integrally linked to U.S. national security.  Likewise, I think there can be sober anti-jihadism that recognises the reality and evil of the threat without jumping on board with every call for intervention in the Near East or elsewhere.  </p>
<p>Also, what can it mean to call John Lukacs a &#8220;crank&#8221;?  If he&#8217;s a crank, God knows what that makes the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Roach</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11170</link>
		<dc:creator>Roach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11170</guid>
		<description>Well said, Daniel.  Lukacs is a welcome voice, and it would be pretty dreary if paleoconservatives started to have strict litmus tests on complicated matters of historical interpretation.  It&#039;s a question of grammar more than it is one of specific positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Daniel.  Lukacs is a welcome voice, and it would be pretty dreary if paleoconservatives started to have strict litmus tests on complicated matters of historical interpretation.  It&#8217;s a question of grammar more than it is one of specific positions.</p>
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		<title>By: Around the Web &#171; Brave New World Watch</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11101</link>
		<dc:creator>Around the Web &#171; Brave New World Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 15:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11101</guid>
		<description>[...] Pat Buchanan&#8217;s new book about Churchill and World War II has gotten a lot of attention. I will be interested to see the argument, which we ought to keep an open mind to, Daniel Larison reminds us, instead of just accepting the received interpretation. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pat Buchanan&#8217;s new book about Churchill and World War II has gotten a lot of attention. I will be interested to see the argument, which we ought to keep an open mind to, Daniel Larison reminds us, instead of just accepting the received interpretation. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11089</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 02:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11089</guid>
		<description>Tom, we agree that Buchanan and Francis have been outstanding conservatives, and I understand and share your desire to defend Mr. Buchanan. Even so, I think 20% agreement with Lukacs probably understates things. I take your points about populism, nationalism and anticommunism. Prof. Lukacs makes claims about the Populists that I don&#039;t find persuasive, as I&#039;ve said before, and obviously he makes claims about the Orthodox world that I find to be very misleading, but it seems indisputable that we agree with him in how we see the world far more than we don&#039;t. Generally, I tend to agree with him and Kennan about the power and dangers of nationalism and popular anticommunism, and I think they show that it is possible to be strongly anticommunist in one&#039;s views, as he is and Kennan certainly was, without embracing the more dangerous aspects of mass anticommunism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, we agree that Buchanan and Francis have been outstanding conservatives, and I understand and share your desire to defend Mr. Buchanan. Even so, I think 20% agreement with Lukacs probably understates things. I take your points about populism, nationalism and anticommunism. Prof. Lukacs makes claims about the Populists that I don&#8217;t find persuasive, as I&#8217;ve said before, and obviously he makes claims about the Orthodox world that I find to be very misleading, but it seems indisputable that we agree with him in how we see the world far more than we don&#8217;t. Generally, I tend to agree with him and Kennan about the power and dangers of nationalism and popular anticommunism, and I think they show that it is possible to be strongly anticommunist in one&#8217;s views, as he is and Kennan certainly was, without embracing the more dangerous aspects of mass anticommunism.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Piatak</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11063</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Piatak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 16:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11063</guid>
		<description>Daniel,

Just for the record, I do not agree with John Lukacs 95% of the time.  20% of the time might be more accurate.  The finest conservative analysts of my life have been Pat Buchanan and Sam Francis, each of whom I have been privileged to have as a friend.  I thus regard critical reviews of Buchanan somewhat differently than I would critcal reviews of someone I do not know.

Of course, Buchanan and Francis each have supported populism, nationalism, and anti-Communism, and thus, according to Lukacs&#039;  taxonomy, are not really conservatives at all.   Needless to say, I disagree with Lukacs here too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel,</p>
<p>Just for the record, I do not agree with John Lukacs 95% of the time.  20% of the time might be more accurate.  The finest conservative analysts of my life have been Pat Buchanan and Sam Francis, each of whom I have been privileged to have as a friend.  I thus regard critical reviews of Buchanan somewhat differently than I would critcal reviews of someone I do not know.</p>
<p>Of course, Buchanan and Francis each have supported populism, nationalism, and anti-Communism, and thus, according to Lukacs&#8217;  taxonomy, are not really conservatives at all.   Needless to say, I disagree with Lukacs here too.</p>
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		<title>By: jamesvkruse</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-11059</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesvkruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 11:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/05/24/on-lukacs-and-buchanan-ii/#comment-11059</guid>
		<description>Another example would be how Bill Kauffman writes for TAC  sometimes, although in his book &quot;Look Homeward America&quot; he calls paleoconservatives, especially the ones who rally around Chronicles Magazine, intoxicating.  What&#039;s really intoxicating are people who believe in untested, unproven nonsense like anarchism, like Bill Kauffman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another example would be how Bill Kauffman writes for TAC  sometimes, although in his book &#8220;Look Homeward America&#8221; he calls paleoconservatives, especially the ones who rally around Chronicles Magazine, intoxicating.  What&#8217;s really intoxicating are people who believe in untested, unproven nonsense like anarchism, like Bill Kauffman.</p>
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