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	<title>Comments on: Divisions</title>
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	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10194</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10194</guid>
		<description>Well, yes, identitarian is a word.  Identity does not always need to be ethnic or racial for the statement about democratic politics to be true.  You vote for those whom you want to have representing you, and typically this means voting for people like you, people who share your identity.  If that is overly broad and meaningless, so be it, but I think it is useful to remember.  The identity in question might not necessarily be ethnic or racial.  It could be religious, or it could have other dimensions entirely.  

When has it ever been identitarian?  Try any national election since at least 1868.  For that matter, any antebellum election that involved sectional differences had some identity component to it.  You want to tell me that the 1928 election didn&#039;t have a strong element of ethnic and religious identity politics?  What about 1960?  Obviously explicitly race and gender identity politics were recent arrivals on the scene for the most part, but let&#039;s not pretend that elections haven&#039;t turned on identity for a long time before the revolutions of the &#039;60s and &#039;70s.  Identity politics in democratic elections is more muted in communities that are less diverse, because there are fewer differences that can be politicised.  As America has become more diverse, it has become more of an explicit element in our elections, beginning at least as long ago as the rise of the American Party in the 1850s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, identitarian is a word.  Identity does not always need to be ethnic or racial for the statement about democratic politics to be true.  You vote for those whom you want to have representing you, and typically this means voting for people like you, people who share your identity.  If that is overly broad and meaningless, so be it, but I think it is useful to remember.  The identity in question might not necessarily be ethnic or racial.  It could be religious, or it could have other dimensions entirely.  </p>
<p>When has it ever been identitarian?  Try any national election since at least 1868.  For that matter, any antebellum election that involved sectional differences had some identity component to it.  You want to tell me that the 1928 election didn&#8217;t have a strong element of ethnic and religious identity politics?  What about 1960?  Obviously explicitly race and gender identity politics were recent arrivals on the scene for the most part, but let&#8217;s not pretend that elections haven&#8217;t turned on identity for a long time before the revolutions of the &#8217;60s and &#8217;70s.  Identity politics in democratic elections is more muted in communities that are less diverse, because there are fewer differences that can be politicised.  As America has become more diverse, it has become more of an explicit element in our elections, beginning at least as long ago as the rise of the American Party in the 1850s.</p>
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		<title>By: rick1</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10193</link>
		<dc:creator>rick1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10193</guid>
		<description>&quot;Democracy is inherently identitarian, and elections are contestations [sic] over which groups will hold more power than others in practice.&quot;

Where as this evidenced in American history? Unless you define groups so generally as to be meaningless, or are using race/ethnicity as the equivalent, groupwise, of political affiliation,  when has American democracy ever been identitarian (if that&#039;s even a word)? Identity politics as defined today has never been a part of our national politics. It is now and forever will be, and that will accrue to our great disadvantage. But let&#039;s not pretend that it&#039;s just business as usual,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Democracy is inherently identitarian, and elections are contestations [sic] over which groups will hold more power than others in practice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Where as this evidenced in American history? Unless you define groups so generally as to be meaningless, or are using race/ethnicity as the equivalent, groupwise, of political affiliation,  when has American democracy ever been identitarian (if that&#8217;s even a word)? Identity politics as defined today has never been a part of our national politics. It is now and forever will be, and that will accrue to our great disadvantage. But let&#8217;s not pretend that it&#8217;s just business as usual,</p>
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		<title>By: Elvis Elvisberg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10189</link>
		<dc:creator>Elvis Elvisberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10189</guid>
		<description>Well, that&#039;s plausible and terrifying.

I can only hope that pressure from Media Matters and the like push political reporters to note occasionally the implications of the candidates&#039; policy proposals.  Only George Soros can save the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that&#8217;s plausible and terrifying.</p>
<p>I can only hope that pressure from Media Matters and the like push political reporters to note occasionally the implications of the candidates&#8217; policy proposals.  Only George Soros can save the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10185</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10185</guid>
		<description>I take your point that policy could become salient when there are real policy differences, but then it occurs to me that the people who vote for McCain seem literally not to care what his policies are (for the most part, he doesn&#039;t care, either).  They vote for him because he is a &quot;good man&quot; or because he is a veteran or (allegedly) a speaker of truth.  It&#039;s not clear to me that these voters can be peeled away by making cogent criticisms of failed policies that McCain endorses.  If currently undecided voters make all the difference, which they probably will, they tend to make their decisions based on character and personality traits and not on issues, so it will come down to which one they are more &quot;comfortable&quot; with.  Goodness knows, I find this sort of thing horrifying, but that is how it seems to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take your point that policy could become salient when there are real policy differences, but then it occurs to me that the people who vote for McCain seem literally not to care what his policies are (for the most part, he doesn&#8217;t care, either).  They vote for him because he is a &#8220;good man&#8221; or because he is a veteran or (allegedly) a speaker of truth.  It&#8217;s not clear to me that these voters can be peeled away by making cogent criticisms of failed policies that McCain endorses.  If currently undecided voters make all the difference, which they probably will, they tend to make their decisions based on character and personality traits and not on issues, so it will come down to which one they are more &#8220;comfortable&#8221; with.  Goodness knows, I find this sort of thing horrifying, but that is how it seems to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Elvis Elvisberg</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10184</link>
		<dc:creator>Elvis Elvisberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10184</guid>
		<description>Interesting, Daniel.

The reason that I&#039;m not all that concerned about this-- though your Kenya analysis makes sense-- is that the Obama-McCain matchup will be significantly less biography-based than the Obama-Clinton matchup has been.  Clinton and Obama are pretty close on most policy issues.  Obama and McCain are not.  

The essential critique of the media from left-leaning folks like me is that they need to talk about policy every now and again between stories about flag pins.  You&#039;re right, though, that the fact-averse media could combine with the GOP politics of personality (lord knows they aren&#039;t going to win on policy) deeply to divide the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, Daniel.</p>
<p>The reason that I&#8217;m not all that concerned about this&#8211; though your Kenya analysis makes sense&#8211; is that the Obama-McCain matchup will be significantly less biography-based than the Obama-Clinton matchup has been.  Clinton and Obama are pretty close on most policy issues.  Obama and McCain are not.  </p>
<p>The essential critique of the media from left-leaning folks like me is that they need to talk about policy every now and again between stories about flag pins.  You&#8217;re right, though, that the fact-averse media could combine with the GOP politics of personality (lord knows they aren&#8217;t going to win on policy) deeply to divide the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy Old Man</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10183</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy Old Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/22/divisions-2/#comment-10183</guid>
		<description>The French premiership of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_Blum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;LÃ©on Blum&lt;/a&gt; didn&#039;t cure French society of antisemitism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The French premiership of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_Blum" rel="nofollow">LÃ©on Blum</a> didn&#8217;t cure French society of antisemitism.</p>
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