Comments on: Pennsylvania http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner n. the principle of good order<br /><br /> "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:25:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: conradg http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-10156 conradg Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:23:56 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/#comment-10156 Good analysis, except that you still haven't demonstrated that anyone actually cares about these comments (except that they have answered polsters questions, which isn't the same as caring about it). Meaning, changing their votes. It's been obvious for ages that Obama has trouble relating to blue collar white voters of certain ethnic backgrounds in certain parts of the country. What's not obvious at all is whether his comments have changed that at all. Are more rural blue-collar white ethnics against him than before? Doesn't seem to be much of a change there. Will it affect the general election? Hard to say. It's not like Obama is running against an egalitarian man-of-the-people from a blue collar background. McCain is from blue-blood background, not blue-collar. Both his father and grandfather were Navy Admirals. He's a centamillionaire by marriage. If these comments actually do affect Obama, it's not clear that it's anything more than a reification of people's pre-existing impressions and doubts. But November is still a long way off, and Obama does have the general advantage that the better people get to know him, the more likely they are to vote for him. As you say, finding out that he's got some elitist views is hardly news. People who have heard him speak before already know that. He's obviously got a lot to overcome. And it's not as if this particular demographic in PA isn't already disinclined to vote for black candidates. The big undercurrent to Hillary's campaign, as it will likely be for the GOP campaign in the fall, is providing emotional contexts for not voting for a black man that aren't explicitly racist, but play upon that unspoken prejudice. That's why comments like this get played up by the opposition so much, when the opposition is not, itself, any less elitist in any sense whatsoever. Good analysis, except that you still haven’t demonstrated that anyone actually cares about these comments (except that they have answered polsters questions, which isn’t the same as caring about it). Meaning, changing their votes. It’s been obvious for ages that Obama has trouble relating to blue collar white voters of certain ethnic backgrounds in certain parts of the country. What’s not obvious at all is whether his comments have changed that at all. Are more rural blue-collar white ethnics against him than before? Doesn’t seem to be much of a change there. Will it affect the general election? Hard to say. It’s not like Obama is running against an egalitarian man-of-the-people from a blue collar background. McCain is from blue-blood background, not blue-collar. Both his father and grandfather were Navy Admirals. He’s a centamillionaire by marriage.

If these comments actually do affect Obama, it’s not clear that it’s anything more than a reification of people’s pre-existing impressions and doubts. But November is still a long way off, and Obama does have the general advantage that the better people get to know him, the more likely they are to vote for him. As you say, finding out that he’s got some elitist views is hardly news. People who have heard him speak before already know that. He’s obviously got a lot to overcome. And it’s not as if this particular demographic in PA isn’t already disinclined to vote for black candidates. The big undercurrent to Hillary’s campaign, as it will likely be for the GOP campaign in the fall, is providing emotional contexts for not voting for a black man that aren’t explicitly racist, but play upon that unspoken prejudice. That’s why comments like this get played up by the opposition so much, when the opposition is not, itself, any less elitist in any sense whatsoever.

]]> By: Roach http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-10154 Roach Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:46:33 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/#comment-10154 Your analysis is very solid. But one must wonder: why does Obama give a speech after the Wright affair to shore up his airtight support among latte liberals and blacks and continually have a tin-ear for blue collar whites and Hispanics. It's true, nothing in his life experience has given him much exposure to these people, but he always seemed affable and unflappable on the campaign trail. Then he devolves into long disquisitions on race that would make Marcuse proud and obviously poorly phrased (and also innacurate) accounts of the beliefs and problems of Pennsylvanians. Incidentally, this is Catholic and Orthodox country, not like the wealthier mega-church Bible belt, which seems to be what Obama has in mind. He seems to be transposing the experienc eof alienated blacks and their churches that give a voice to that alienation and the more spiritual and less political life of rural, poor whites. Your analysis is very solid. But one must wonder: why does Obama give a speech after the Wright affair to shore up his airtight support among latte liberals and blacks and continually have a tin-ear for blue collar whites and Hispanics. It’s true, nothing in his life experience has given him much exposure to these people, but he always seemed affable and unflappable on the campaign trail. Then he devolves into long disquisitions on race that would make Marcuse proud and obviously poorly phrased (and also innacurate) accounts of the beliefs and problems of Pennsylvanians.

Incidentally, this is Catholic and Orthodox country, not like the wealthier mega-church Bible belt, which seems to be what Obama has in mind. He seems to be transposing the experienc eof alienated blacks and their churches that give a voice to that alienation and the more spiritual and less political life of rural, poor whites.

]]> By: M.Z. Forrest http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/comment-page-1/#comment-10153 M.Z. Forrest Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:32:37 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/04/21/the-stone-that-the-builders-rejected-the-same-has-become-the-head-of-the-corner/#comment-10153 NE Penn is fairly Catholic from what I understand. I wonder if Casey campaigning on Obama's behalf is helping a little bit. NE Penn is fairly Catholic from what I understand. I wonder if Casey campaigning on Obama’s behalf is helping a little bit.

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