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	<title>Comments on: Out West</title>
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	<description>n. the principle of good order&#60;br /&#62;&#60;br /&#62; "Observe the strange inversion of all order and sense! Dignity debased; how vilely is the function of a consul prostituted!" ~The Craftsman</description>
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		<title>By: jaloren</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9786</link>
		<dc:creator>jaloren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/#comment-9786</guid>
		<description>As a liberal Democrat, I have perceived the dire warnings from the Left about &quot;The Coming of American Theocracy&quot; as extremely exaggerated.  In our mass democracy, demographics and environmental factors that have no direct connection to ideological positions (e.g. price of oil, good economy) determines political power.  Consequently, the idea that a secret cabal of Christian theocrats plans on remaking America falls flat.

Our country is a consumerist culture predicated on the values of globalization.  This ethos is toxic to the goals of traditional conservatives.  Repeatedly whenever there is a policy question concerning the interests of corporations and consumers on the one hand and the interests of traditional conservatives on the other, the social conservatives are thrown under the bus (Of course, as a secular liberal I&#039;d happily drive that bus).  

However, that being said, there is a reason fusionism was a successful electoral strategy.  The more partisan the US becomes the more important rhetoric becomes, even though rhetoric (as opposed to demographics and identity) has only a marginal impact on elections.  That margin makes the differences.  

Consequently, post-WWII the corporate wing of the Republican Party needed a rhetoric that appealed to the masses (hint: it wasn&#039;t corporatism).  I believe that one of the core components of Republican&#039;s electoral success (at least since the 80s) was their religious appeal.  It was by no means the only component--there were many other crucial elements-but the Republicans could not have won the elections that they did without it.
 
This is in many ways why the Republican Party has imploded.  The war was the over riding factor, but on a basic structural level they lost their religious ethos.  Conservative Christians no longer believe that voting Republican means voting for their religious interests (e.g. Rod Dreher, Crunchy Cons)..  Now, of course, that does not mean they will suddenly start voting for the Democrats.  However, if conservative Christians either start shifting to a third party or sitting out elections, where will the Republicans be?  What base of support will they draw on?  If the answer is small government conservatives and libertarians, then they are doomed to loose elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a liberal Democrat, I have perceived the dire warnings from the Left about &#8220;The Coming of American Theocracy&#8221; as extremely exaggerated.  In our mass democracy, demographics and environmental factors that have no direct connection to ideological positions (e.g. price of oil, good economy) determines political power.  Consequently, the idea that a secret cabal of Christian theocrats plans on remaking America falls flat.</p>
<p>Our country is a consumerist culture predicated on the values of globalization.  This ethos is toxic to the goals of traditional conservatives.  Repeatedly whenever there is a policy question concerning the interests of corporations and consumers on the one hand and the interests of traditional conservatives on the other, the social conservatives are thrown under the bus (Of course, as a secular liberal I&#8217;d happily drive that bus).  </p>
<p>However, that being said, there is a reason fusionism was a successful electoral strategy.  The more partisan the US becomes the more important rhetoric becomes, even though rhetoric (as opposed to demographics and identity) has only a marginal impact on elections.  That margin makes the differences.  </p>
<p>Consequently, post-WWII the corporate wing of the Republican Party needed a rhetoric that appealed to the masses (hint: it wasn&#8217;t corporatism).  I believe that one of the core components of Republican&#8217;s electoral success (at least since the 80s) was their religious appeal.  It was by no means the only component&#8211;there were many other crucial elements-but the Republicans could not have won the elections that they did without it.</p>
<p>This is in many ways why the Republican Party has imploded.  The war was the over riding factor, but on a basic structural level they lost their religious ethos.  Conservative Christians no longer believe that voting Republican means voting for their religious interests (e.g. Rod Dreher, Crunchy Cons)..  Now, of course, that does not mean they will suddenly start voting for the Democrats.  However, if conservative Christians either start shifting to a third party or sitting out elections, where will the Republicans be?  What base of support will they draw on?  If the answer is small government conservatives and libertarians, then they are doomed to loose elections.</p>
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		<title>By: LMaggitti</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9785</link>
		<dc:creator>LMaggitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/#comment-9785</guid>
		<description>This brings to mind some of the Republican triumphalism that we heard a couple years ago. They pointed to the fact that the fastest growing parts of the country tended to be Red States (and counties) as evidence of an emerging permanent Republican majority. Some people pointed out at the time that a large part of this growth was people moving from &quot;blue&quot; states and counties, and suggested that the fast growing &quot;red&quot; states and counties would become less red.

The latter prediction does seem to be being borne out to a great degree, with the caveat that it is difficult to seperate long term trends from short term trends (e.g., a general shift towards the Dems that may well be a short term result of dissatisfaction with the Bush administration).

Re Colorado, I&#039;m a relatively new resident myself (a transplant from blue America), but one important factor in Colorado right now seems to be a disparity in the relative qualities of the two party organizations right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This brings to mind some of the Republican triumphalism that we heard a couple years ago. They pointed to the fact that the fastest growing parts of the country tended to be Red States (and counties) as evidence of an emerging permanent Republican majority. Some people pointed out at the time that a large part of this growth was people moving from &#8220;blue&#8221; states and counties, and suggested that the fast growing &#8220;red&#8221; states and counties would become less red.</p>
<p>The latter prediction does seem to be being borne out to a great degree, with the caveat that it is difficult to seperate long term trends from short term trends (e.g., a general shift towards the Dems that may well be a short term result of dissatisfaction with the Bush administration).</p>
<p>Re Colorado, I&#8217;m a relatively new resident myself (a transplant from blue America), but one important factor in Colorado right now seems to be a disparity in the relative qualities of the two party organizations right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Larison</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9784</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Larison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/#comment-9784</guid>
		<description>I suppose I wouldn&#039;t like it if it were applied to me, either.  I was actually trying to be a bit light-hearted there, so I apologise for making it seem as if I have some real grudge against Californians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I wouldn&#8217;t like it if it were applied to me, either.  I was actually trying to be a bit light-hearted there, so I apologise for making it seem as if I have some real grudge against Californians.</p>
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		<title>By: kitstolz</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9782</link>
		<dc:creator>kitstolz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/#comment-9782</guid>
		<description>Interesting -- not knowing a great deal about the politics of Colorado, I&#039;m not going to take sides on the broader question, but as a Californian, I do bridle at your casual display of prejudice.

Imagine how it would look if instead of the word &quot;Californian,&quot; you were to substitute the word Okie or redneck or libertarian, resulting in a sentence such as &quot;Keeping the rednecks out, while desirable, is not really practical...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting &#8212; not knowing a great deal about the politics of Colorado, I&#8217;m not going to take sides on the broader question, but as a Californian, I do bridle at your casual display of prejudice.</p>
<p>Imagine how it would look if instead of the word &#8220;Californian,&#8221; you were to substitute the word Okie or redneck or libertarian, resulting in a sentence such as &#8220;Keeping the rednecks out, while desirable, is not really practical&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/comment-page-1/#comment-9779</link>
		<dc:creator>M.Z. Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/03/28/out-west/#comment-9779</guid>
		<description>Excellent analysis as always.  We will have to see if he takes Heather Wilson as his VP.  I&#039;m sure you would have commentary about that.

I will be interested in seeing how the electoral map changes.  I think there is a very good chance the Dems lose Florida and Ohio and make it up along the Mississippi River.  Admitedly the polling in Missouri doesn&#039;t support that presently.  To the larger point, a libertarian message is very unappealing when people don&#039;t feel they have control.  If a got a mortgage 5 years ago and I can&#039;t find financing after an adjustment due to a Wall Street caused liquidity crisis - a gross oversimplification on so many levels - the first thought running through my head is not going to be the need to suffer through a temporary phenomena.  For the lower white collar class, when they see their job cut and shipped to India, their first thought isn&#039;t going to be how they are making up their loss of income with price savings at Walmart; they are thinking the next job they take may just as easily be exported.  As with many things, the easy answers have been tried and left wanting in the wake of larger phenomena, something too many libertarians in their cush academic jobs don&#039;t ever consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis as always.  We will have to see if he takes Heather Wilson as his VP.  I&#8217;m sure you would have commentary about that.</p>
<p>I will be interested in seeing how the electoral map changes.  I think there is a very good chance the Dems lose Florida and Ohio and make it up along the Mississippi River.  Admitedly the polling in Missouri doesn&#8217;t support that presently.  To the larger point, a libertarian message is very unappealing when people don&#8217;t feel they have control.  If a got a mortgage 5 years ago and I can&#8217;t find financing after an adjustment due to a Wall Street caused liquidity crisis &#8211; a gross oversimplification on so many levels &#8211; the first thought running through my head is not going to be the need to suffer through a temporary phenomena.  For the lower white collar class, when they see their job cut and shipped to India, their first thought isn&#8217;t going to be how they are making up their loss of income with price savings at Walmart; they are thinking the next job they take may just as easily be exported.  As with many things, the easy answers have been tried and left wanting in the wake of larger phenomena, something too many libertarians in their cush academic jobs don&#8217;t ever consider.</p>
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