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Trump’s Contempt For ‘Shi*hole’ Countries

In 1994, I visited a friend in Oslo, in the dead of winter. I was a new Catholic then, and determined to get to Sunday mass no matter what. My friend warned me not to expect much. Nobody goes to church anymore in Norway, she said. It’s true: church attendance in Norway is among the lowest in the world. [1] My friend said that I should expect to be the only young person in the entire church.

It was hard for me, a Louisiana boy, to walk on the ice, so I arrived at Oslo’s Catholic cathedral, St. Olav’s, late for mass. When I opened the door, I could barely squeeze in. The cathedral was filled beyond capacity with Catholic worshippers! Seriously, there was barely any room to stand. Only a small minority of us were white. Most everybody else was either black African, Filipino, or Vietnamese.

I love Norway and Norwegians. I really do. But the white people of Norway were not at Sunday services in the Lutheran churches, to which the overwhelming majority of Norwegians belong. The immigrants were.

I wonder how Jerry Falwell Jr., Robert Jeffress, Franklin Graham and other Evangelicals who have been big public Trump backers feel about the president designating countries where huge numbers of faith Christians live as “shitholes,” and saying he would prefer that America take in immigrants from godless Scandinavian countries.

To be clear, I think there’s nothing wrong with any country deciding what kind of immigrants it wants to let in. It’s perfectly reasonable to have that discussion.That’s not what this controversy is about. It’s about our vulgar president’s contempt for entire nations full of poor, non-white human beings.

From two days ago:

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Other nations of the world — nations where you can find lots of people who pray to the same God as Messrs. Falwell, Jeffress, and Graham, and where lots of churches have supported missionary efforts for decades — are, to our authentic, successful, down-to-earth president, nothing but shitholes that produce the kind of garbage people we don’t want in America.

The thing speaks for itself…

UPDATE: Here’s what I think. If Trump had said, “We need to consider the kinds of immigrants we allow into this country, and make sure we are favoring those with skills America needs” — nobody would have said a critical word. But he used a vulgarism, and by contrasting it with “Norway” — which, as someone pointed out, is not a skill — left himself wide-open to plausible accusations of racism.

UPDATE.2: Well, there you go:

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325 Comments (Open | Close)

325 Comments To "Trump’s Contempt For ‘Shi*hole’ Countries"

#1 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On January 15, 2018 @ 5:35 pm

Elijah speaks like a true proletarian socialist.

Its not that things will NEVER change in Haiti. Its just that when there are major structural reasons Haiti is in the condition it is, no amount of charity will change that.

Under Toussaint Louverture’s leadership, the French colony of St. Domingue remained prosperous, and he made sure the people who did the laboring in the fields got a fair share of the revenue. After Napoleon and Thomas Jefferson cut off the nation’s trade, it foundered, and has never recovered under the tender ministrations of international capital.

Caribbean islands have only had two successful economic models: subsistence agriculture, and export commodity production.

#2 Comment By BadReligion On January 15, 2018 @ 7:14 pm

“Do you hold this view of all countries, or do you reserve this special contempt solely for countries where Europeans or European-descended people live?”

I realize that this question wasn’t directed at me, but yes, anarchists like me oppose states, period. Plus, the benefits of a free market for labor are quite extraordinary, on both sides of the equation.

Martha Dogood: “If you want to help those countries become better places, then teach them to fish, help them find new ways to leave their corrupt crime ridden pasts behind them.”

You have no idea how horribly the US has treated, and continues to treat, El Salvador and Haiti, do you? Do you have any idea how often the US has invaded, subverted the democratic process, backed right-wing dictators, funded death squads, dumped artificially cheap agriculture, and so on? Keep in mind that this is still going on, particularly in El Salvador, where the Trump administration has worsened the already bad Obama-era policies of colluding with the reactionary wealthy elites of that country to hold back the achievements of the FMLN government.

Besides, allowing migration is a great way to alleviate poverty. Dollars go a long way in these countries. Note that Mexico now has a middle class, as does the Philippines, and remittances have played a huge role in this. Very few Mexicans (net) now migrate to the US, unlike a generation ago.

Glaivester- So you really think that races exist, and that some of them are invariably inferior? Be honest with me, and with yourself.

You, and so many others, are worried about assimilation. Did you notice the recent article on this very blog about the effect that living in America is having on Muslims, particularly the young? They are assimilating! They’re doing what nativists claimed that some of my (Polish-Jewish)ancestors would never do, and probably they said that about yours also.

Marc: “It’s clear that the intent of his remark is that sensible immigration policy would not be favoring poor, low-skilled people from cultures vastly different than our own. Unlimited third world immigration is and will irrevocably change the character and composition of our country, not least by voting democratic and turning the country into a left-wing, one-party nation like California for as far as the eye can see.”

Actually, sensible immigration policy (if we accept the legitimacy of states and borders to begin with) would favor whomever the economy needs, and low-skilled labor is hard to come by in most destination countries. I know that the robots are coming, but they can’t do everything. Keep in mind that the Total Fertility Rate in El Salvador is quite low, and so it’s not like they will be coming forever.

Also, the Democrats are hardly a left-wing party, and the overreaching of California’s nativists actually went a long way towards weakening the GOP there. The state is doing pretty well these days, as it happens. You say you’re prepared to resist “to the finish.” If it’s a fight you want, you’ve got it. The further left one looks, the more weapons one finds. “Alerta, alerta, antifascista,” as the chant goes.

Elijah: “But I wonder how many people are getting tired of lending a helping hand to nations that are, by many objective measures, failing.”

The biggest hands aren’t helping; they’re hurting, and producing the migration crises.

Is it too much to ask to stop blaming the victims?

#3 Comment By Faust On January 15, 2018 @ 9:54 pm

Many immigrants from “sh*thole” countries are extremely productive and educated. They do more for the country than many that are born here. These are the types of immigrants we should really want in America as they are productive members of society.

#4 Comment By BadReligion On January 15, 2018 @ 11:02 pm

Hector: “I guess Bad Religion knows more about how to run a socialist state than the erstwhile GDR, who were well aware (correctly) of the mortal threat posed by free movement of people’s.”

Yes, actually. The political defectors from the GDR weren’t in a position to send remittances home, and the GDR, for all its problems, was not comparable to places like Haiti. The large numbers who crossed to the West before the construction of the Wall and Inner German Border were voting with their feet, opposing Sovietization.

Indeed, I don’t support the state. There is no wall preventing people from leaving Rojava, if they wish.

Polichinello: If you seriously want to paint immigrants as a burden, you really ought to find better sources (peer-reviewed, empirical, etc.) than VDARE, a white nationalist organization.

“For the professionals’ family members and close associates. Need a doctor? Sorry, not here, but don’t worry, he built his wife and kids a nice house on the hill.
For building a society with long-term prospects, remittances are absolutely horrible. They’ve help ruined family structures in Mexico and Central American, and very often result the person either abandoning his family or importing them here (where they often have to be educated and given health care at our expense).”

No, those close to the sender of remittances spend that money domestically, thus benefitting anybody providing them with goods and services. Remittances commonly go towards sending people (especially girls!) to school, so they can become all kinds of useful things, like doctors. Mexico and the Philippines have middle classes now, and while no, one cannot exist on remittances forever, and there are indeed disruptions and distortions associated with it, the benefits are extraordinary.

“…the guy who authorized the Tianamen Massacre…”
True, also irrelevant. I can cite a savvy economic move by Deng Xiaoping without approving of anything else he ever did.

“Your answer to this is turn working and middle class neighborhoods into multicultural dystopias, which SWPL’s make sure they never get any closer to than having to nod “hello” to Guatemalan busboy cleaning up at the Chinese buffet.”

Where do you live, some compound in the middle of nowhere, without a person of color within many miles? You really don’t know what you’re talking about, and you sound like all the other nativists in this country’s history, and you’re just as wrong as they ever were.

I grew up in (or technically adjacent to, but I spent most of my time in) a suburb that may at first have seemed like a white-flight exemplar, but was actually highly diverse. This was doubly true of my own peer group. Was there often self-segregation? Sure, but ethnically-mixed groups of friends were the norm. Can my peers of color talk about facing racism, of clueless and/or malicious forms? Sure, unfortunately, but I strongly doubt it was ever enough to create balkanization.

Now, as I approach my 36th birthday, I can say that I’ve seen so many mixed-race friendships, romances, marriages (in my own house!), and childbirths that it’s not remarkable in any way. Your caricatured SWPLs (apolitical yuppies) are indeed a problem, and are held in contempt by all my radical comrades.

Siarlys: Yes, thanks for pointing out some of the cruelties visited in Haiti. There have been many more than just those, sadly.

#5 Comment By muad’dib On January 16, 2018 @ 6:58 am

Vietnam is about on par with El Salvador. Americans seem to have a weird tendency to overestimate South and Southeast Asian development levels and underestimate those in Latin America, for reasons that are unclear to me.

Americans are some of the least traveled people on the planet, they have no idea what the world looks like outside of the US which is why FOX news can get away with claiming that there are no go zone in Western Europe. Most of the South-Asians they meet are either small business people or professionals, most of the Latin Americans they meet are either poverty wage workers or working class. Because any Latin-American who is a professional and speaks English fluently is not recognized as Latin-American. The melting pot at work.

#6 Comment By Faust On January 16, 2018 @ 8:21 am

What Trump and his supporters don’t understand is that immigrants from many of these “sh*thole” countries are extremely productive when they come to the United States. Many of them are better educated and more productive than the people born here. These are exactly the types of immigrants we should want here. They bring strong work ethic and an educated workforce. They contribute to society. Mr. Trump is focusing too much on the nation they are from instead of what they do when they get here. An example are Nigerian Americans, who are one of the most educated groups in America.

#7 Comment By Hector_St_Clare On January 16, 2018 @ 10:48 am

Caribbean islands have only had two successful economic models: subsistence agriculture, and export commodity production.

Well, there’s tourism. (Which as Michael Manley said, is a depressing thing to have to build your economy on, and I really dislike tourism-focused economies, but it’s helped make a lot of the Caribbean Basin quite a pleasant place to live).

And of course Cuba has a highly educated populace, so they could potentially be a very successful industrialized economy in the future (or in an alternate reality where they weren’t hit by the US embargo, by the 1960s push to be more communist than the communists, by the later decision to focus intensively on a single export commodity, and finally by the collapse of the Soviet Union). Their long run advantages are probably the best of all the communist countries.

The further left one looks, the more weapons one finds. “Alerta, alerta, antifascista,” as the chant goes.

Thus far, the record suggests that anarchists always lose out to either Fascists or Stalinists when it comes to a trial of force.

See, the reason I always keep bringing up states like the GDR is because authoritarian, regimented command economies actually have a track record. So do authoritarian, regimented semi-market, semi-collective economies like Hungary. So do ethno-tribal nation states (or going back further, ethno-tribal pre-state societies) and truthfully so does Catholic integralism, so does absolute monarchy, so does Iran’s ‘guardianship of the jurist’, although that really was an innovation when it started. Your anarchism has no track record at all (fortunately) and has never demonstrated itself capable of running a country. For which I’m pretty glad, because as unpleasant as your dream of the future sounds, I’m also not that worried that it will ever come to pass, at least on a global scale.

“Do you hold this view of all countries, or do you reserve this special contempt solely for countries where Europeans or European-descended people live?”

Yea, the more ‘consistent’ cultural liberals think that Pakistanis, Kikuyu, and Tibetans don’t have any more rights to self determination than Poles and Czechs. (Chinese people in Tibet are just as “Tibetan” as the Tibetans, because race is a social construct!) Which only goes to show that consistency isn’t always a good thing.

#8 Comment By Hector_St_Clare On January 16, 2018 @ 10:57 am

One church leader in particular said (paraphrasing here) “At some point you realize things in Haiti may never change. Ever. All the trips, the resources, the collections and are they really any better off? We’ve decided to spend more time in local mission efforts where we have some chance of developing relationships.”

Sorry, but this is an utter cop out. Especially in the age of the internet and with respect to a country like Haiti with a large American diaspora. It’s not that difficult to ‘develop relationships’ with Haitians if you’re really interested in putting in the effort.

I refer to it as a cop out because it reads to me like “the problems in Haiti are so depressing, and overcoming them is so difficult, that I’d prefer not to think about them, and give my money to Americans instead”. Sorry, but worthwhile things weren’t supposed to be easy, nor is life always supposed to be pleasant.

At the utilitarian level, any dollar you spend on charity in Haiti (or Africa, or El Salvador) is going to have a massively
greater impact on human welfare than a dollar given to charity in the US. And additionally, a portion of your tax dollars already goes to social spending in the US. The portion of US tax money spent on foreign aid is by contrast utterly trivial, and has gotten smaller under our sitting Junk-Food-Addict-in-Chief.

Furthermore, if you actually care about reducing migration flows, and I do, increasing human development in poorer countries is the best way to go about it. As the saying goes, development is the best contraceptive.

These are a few reasons I make my charity donations exclusively abroad.

#9 Comment By Hector_St_Clare On January 16, 2018 @ 11:05 am

I do believe you sincerely believe this, however, because this myth has been burned into America’s national consciousness to the point where people think the words on a plaque on a lone statue are an Article of the Constitution of the United States.

I don’t really believe that America is great per se, and I don’t really believe in the concept of national greatness. And as you rightly point out, the Emma Lazarus poem isn’t, you know, law. That being said, I do think the world is better off when people in as dire situations as a lot of Haitians are, or for that matter people suffering from high crime rates in El Salvador, ethnic strife in Europe or Asia, poverty in Africa, etc., have in the last analysis a place to seek refuge. Immigration has big costs to a society, and I’ve pointed that out in this blog and elsewhere, tirelessly. I don’t think that every society should have open borders, very far from it. Nevertheless, there are also goods to be achieved, largely moral, by some societies serving as places of refuge, and America is better set up to fulfill that role than most, because of our size, wealth, history, culturel attitudes and our pre-existing ethnic diversity. Don’t underestimate the bad effects of taking in migrants, but also let’s not overstate them or understate the benefits.

#10 Comment By Richard Williams On January 16, 2018 @ 12:59 pm

Erdrick, I don’t think you understood the gist of my earlier comment. Let me make clear, I believe I belong in America and I believe that America should have the right to determine who gets to immigrate here. I’d just accept those you would reject out of some misguided belief in demographic unity.

Tongue firmly in cheek, let me just say that some of my ancestors didn’t appear to believe that most Europeans of non-English descent should be allowed here because they could not really be Americans. The Scots (I have some Scots ancestors) were allowed out of the distressing reality of proximity; the same could be said of the Welsh and so-called Scots Irish, but not the Irish Irish. I guess they would have accepted our few Dutch ancestors who worshipped with the Pilgrims in Leiden and followed them over in those first years after the Mayflower, or Gysbert Op ten Dyke (aka Gisbert Updyke), who was actually born in Germany on the lower Rhine, moved a little west into Holland, became an official in New Amsterdam, owned what is now Coney Island, and then made his way north to found Wickford, Rhode Island. After all, he married an English woman and his lands in Rhode Island were actually her father’s. But most other Germans or Scandinavians were held at arms length. The Anglo-Saxon in WASP was always more Anglo than Saxon and the P had predominance over all. In some of their minds Lutherans, like Episcopalians, were never quite Protestant enough, although the Episcopalians in the family always shunned the Baptists and the Quakers in the family. But the Portugese, the French, the Italians, the Polish, and all others to the east and the south of Europe, no siree–they were not of the same culture or language and were blasphemers all! And in my ancestors’ minds this was reality. Emotion did not enter into the question. My grand Aunt could count as close friends her next door neighbors who might bring her their homemade pizza on a cold winter night or dress up like Santa to entertain us on Christmas afternoon, but she would lower her voice when she spoke of them as “Irish and Italian Catholics.”

Let me remind you that I don’t hold this attitude, but I grew up hearing it. In their minds the demographic changes brought about by non-English European immigration in the 19th and early 20th Century explained what went wrong with America. As a student of European and American history, I know there is no such thing as a unifying strand of Western culture. I don’t so much “celebrate” the demographic changes that non-Europeans bring to America as I accept them as reality. My desire to live to see the “white” population drop below 50% stems from my conviction that only then will “white” people get a modicum of humility and accept that reality is not static, no matter how we may wish it were.

I don’t know if Erdrick is really your name or if it is merely a screen name, perhaps in tribute to a fantasy dragon killer. My favorite dragon killer is not St. George, but Beowulf. Like many things, he wasn’t English but the English claimed him as their own. Then again, the English have never been the pure English either. Increasingly, I’m not too sure who an American is. My beliefs are called madness by people who appear to insist that I am a leftist interloper, who longs to see the destruction of the county my ancestors helped to found. I don’t. What I do know is that dragons need not immigrate. They are here and have always been here. In all of us. No matter from where we may start.

#11 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On January 16, 2018 @ 2:01 pm

And of course Cuba has a highly educated populace, so they could potentially be a very successful industrialized economy in the future

On the same basis as Japan… import a lot of raw materials and export finished goods. Not a bad way to sustain a population, but it does have its precarious aspects. Then again, imagine mayors of cities with high unemployment rates in the USA eagerly welcoming representatives of Cuban state companies, imploring them to set up a factory there.

Bad Religion has the facts on the ground about right today. We may disagree on the solution as much as Karl Marx disagreed with Michael Bakunin, but its important to at least recognize what’s wrong.

#12 Comment By Erdrick On January 16, 2018 @ 3:11 pm

Richard Williams says:
January 16, 2018 at 12:59 pm

As a student of European and American history, I know there is no such thing as a unifying strand of Western culture. I don’t so much “celebrate” the demographic changes that non-Europeans bring to America as I accept them as reality. My desire to live to see the “white” population drop below 50% stems from my conviction that only then will “white” people get a modicum of humility and accept that reality is not static, no matter how we may wish it were.

Richard, I found your second rant to be tedious, pompous, and trite, but I admit that the pat I quoted above made me chuckle. Essentially, you’re taking the position that “white people as a group don’t really exist, but I want to see that group of people humbled.” Your second post confirms that I completely understood your initial post.

#13 Comment By Youknowho On January 16, 2018 @ 5:07 pm

While conditions in those countries can be low by American standards, many who are appalled miss the signs of progress.

I recall a trip to Costa Rica (which is a blessed country thanks to its stability). There are plenty of shacks by the roadside and if you looked at them you’d be dismayed. But then the children you see are all clean and wear shoes. And in one of the shacks I saw a little girl, seated outside, reading. In another there was a sign advertising a typist. If you looked at the shacks alone you’d only see poverty, if you looked at the people you’d see the signs of a decent life.

#14 Comment By BadReligion On January 16, 2018 @ 5:48 pm

Youknowho- It’s good that you mention Costa Rica. They aren’t as prosperous as they sometimes claim, but most of the population isn’t living in those shacks (right?) and you never hear about undocumented migrants coming from there. In fact, they have the interesting situation of migrants coming to their country, looking for work.

You will notice that, aside from a very brief period in the late 1940s, US interaction with Costa Rica has never involved coups, invasions, death squads, and all the other calamities visited upon too many countries.

#15 Comment By Richard Williams On January 16, 2018 @ 8:20 pm

Erdrick, being white I would have difficulty thinking I don’t exist. I wrote that “there is no such thing as a unifying strand of Western culture”; I did not say that white people as a group do not really exist. I wrote “white” because I meant it to include only those like you who seem to insist that race and culture are one and that those like you somehow represent it. While you have every right to find my argument “tedious, pompous, and trite,” I have every right to find yours as I find it.

#16 Comment By Glaivester On January 17, 2018 @ 12:22 am

Glaivester- So you really think that races exist, and that some of them are invariably inferior? Be honest with me, and with yourself.

Of course races exist. A race is an extended family that inbreeds to some degree. A “white person” (European) shares a set of ancestors with other white people that a “black person” does not. If you do not like the term “race,” terms like “population,” “nation,” etc. mean much the same thing.

Different races have different strengths, and bluntly, some races are better adapted to living in a modern society than others. Obviously, you can’t generalize about individuals, but when you talk about large numbers, group averages tend to drown out individual variation.

#17 Comment By Youknowho On January 17, 2018 @ 1:22 am

@Hector St. Clare

On the subject of charity overseas a lot of the burnout happen when people go in without a clear plan of action, nor way of measuring progress.

I give to three charities which DO have plans of action and can measure progress: The Carter Center which is doing an admirable job with tropical diseases that have been neglected, along with their election monitoring and peacekeeping. FINCA, a microfinance outfit that allows thousand to climb out of poverty, and Trees for the Future, which fights desertification and makes sure that by planting trees farmers see their harvest multiply and their incomes grow. These have clear missions, and they can point to their successes.

If you go it driven by the desire to do good, and to help, but have no idea of what to do, you end up a failure and doing more harm than good.

#18 Comment By Erdrick On January 17, 2018 @ 10:23 am

Richard Williams, we could have a long debate about history, culture, race, and identity, what they are, and how they relate, but I suspect neither of us would change the other’s position. Suffice it to say that I am fully aware of all of the historical points you raised and more. I don’t hold whatever strawman view of pure race you assume I hold, I just think that you draw the wrong conclusions from your knowledge of history.

Regardless, you are the one who framed the stakes of the debate. You are the (childless?) 61 year old aging baby boomer who proclaimed his desire for the demographics of the US to change through immigration in order for white people to become a minority in this country and subsequently be humbled (by what specific means you don’t elaborate, but your message hints at some kind of retribution).

As a white man in my 30s, with a white wife and young white children who would bear the brunt of your hoped for humiliation, you have to understand that I find your views to be abhorrent. I will not subject my children to humiliation or worse simply to assuage your guilty conscience. You might be a harmless person who can ideologically separate “whiteness” from white people, but you types give aid and comfort to radicals who cannot or will not make the distinction. Demographics have changed in this country over the past 60 years not due to some natural phenomenon, but because of people like you who intentionally wanted to change them through immigration policy in order to enact some revenge fantasy. Yet you pretend like you have some sort of moral high ground on this issue. Ridiculous.

#19 Comment By Youknowho On January 17, 2018 @ 12:12 pm


Maybe “whiteness” would not disapper as you fear if you adopted the Hispanic viewpoint. Very few Hispanics could pass for pure blood Spaniards. BUT they got a Spaniard in their ancestry, they are CAtholics and culturally Spanish, and they speak Spanish, so they count as Hispanics.

If you adopted teh same viewpoint, not as “white” but as “Scottis” or “Briton” then you could see your tribe increase. As long as there is a Briton in their ancestry, share religion, culture, and language count them in.

#20 Comment By Richard Williams On January 17, 2018 @ 1:02 pm

Erdrick, you keep insisting I have a revenge fantasy that I do not have. I don’t know you, but you certainly make a lot of trite–to use your word–assumptions about what I believe.

First, you keep insisting I have a guilty conscience that motivates my beliefs. I don’t, but clearly I will never convince you that I don’t. Second, you insist I want to see you, your wife, and children humiliated in some vile way. I don’t and never suggested that I did. There is a difference between humiliation and having humility or being humbled by reality. None of the multiple dictionaries I have been able to consult equate humiliation with having humility. Third, I don’t believe my “type” gives aid and comfort to one set of “radicals” any more than I hope your “type” does not give aid and comfort to other “radicals,” those who have killed millions in supposed defense of race and culture.

Lastly, not only do I find your assertions about “boomers” to be as trite as similar attacks on “millennials” or any other supposed “generation,” but also I find them to be historically inaccurate. Neither of the last two major legislative approaches to immigration (the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965 and the Simpson-Mazzoli Act of 1986) were the work of “boomers.” There were no “boomers” in Congress in 1965, so you can blame that on the “Greatest Generation,” if you require a generational villain. Similarly, by 1986 only a small portion of Congress was made up of “boomers” and the Reagan Administration was filled mainly with those of the “Greatest” and “Silent” generations. Since generational accusations predate Socrates, however, I guess I shouldn’t make too much of your doing so. Don’t be surprised, however, when your children’s generation accuses you of all the sins of the world. It will happen.

Otherwise, I only wish the best for you and your young family.

#21 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On January 17, 2018 @ 10:51 pm

Obviously, you can’t generalize about individuals, but when you talk about large numbers, group averages tend to drown out individual variation.

Which, if true, is entirely irrelevant to all matters of law and public policy, provided that each individual is evaluated on their own merit, not on the assumption that they reflect the mean, mode, or median for the statistics of their actual or presumed “race.”

Erdrick, being white I would have difficulty thinking I don’t exist.

Of course you exist. But do stop choosing to think of yourself as “white.” The concept has only been around for about 500 years, having been invented by the Spanish and Portuguese elites for the most venal and opportunistic of reasons. You’re a very very light shade of brown, because you are at one end of a spectrum of epidermal melanin concentrations. It shows that during a period of early human history, your ancestors were more prone to die of Vitamin D deficiency than of sunstroke. Next obsession…

#22 Comment By Tom G On January 18, 2018 @ 7:11 am

Rod, aren’t YOU the one being vulgar, now?

“It’s about our vulgar president’s contempt for entire nations full of poor, non-white human beings.”

Trump said something, behind closed doors in a private meeting with Dems who he’s trying to work with, and THEY come out screaming the vulgar word they say he said — and repeating it, over and over.

If it’s vulgar enough to complain about, it’s too vulgar to be repeated much. CNN repeated it dozens of times.

Please link to a public tweet / public speech which justifies your conclusion that Trump is vulgar, and the stronger but not quite said, he is VASTLY more vulgar than Obama or Clinton.

I really don’t see it in public. The “grab them by the p-” comment was in private, locker room talk. The current s- comment was “private”.

Prejudice is when you look, strongly, for negative behavior in the one you’re biased against, and you find it even when it’s not really there.

As long as government has tax-supported welfare programs for the poor, we need to have borders, which means innocent poor are kept out.

#23 Comment By Erdrick On January 18, 2018 @ 3:05 pm

Richard Williams, notice that I did not put the blame solely on Boomers. The “Greatests” and Silents own their share of this fiasco as well- hence my reference to 60 years (I doubt you had much of a political opinion as a toddler). In fact, I hold you tail-end Boomers (1957-1963) less responsible for our current mess than your elders- you grew up as the golden age of the USA was ending, and de-industrialization devastated your cohort (hence the sky high suicides, rising mortality rates, etc.). And believe me, I am no fan of Saint Reagan for a number of reasons, amnesty only one of them.

But in the end its us Millennials (though I might be slightly too old for that term) and our children and grandchildren who will bear the brunt of the decline and fall of the US. We will get to live in a tribalized society. I have little hope that the miracle of the assimilation of the 1880-1920 wave can be repeated given the prevailing ideologies. Assimilation is a dirty word to the progressives, and weaponized diversity /constant white man bashing is creating a powerful backlash. The melting pot is dead- multiculturalism killed it. Coupled with the fundamental economic changes occurring (and the likelihood that in the near future most of the population won’t be able to find work paying wages suitable to support a family), I am incredibly pessimistic about the future.

Nevertheless, you can try to dance around, deny, and backtrack the implications of what you initially wrote in your first as much as you want, but the implications are still there. I give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you aren’t malicious. I just think you are naive.

#24 Comment By Erdrick On January 18, 2018 @ 3:16 pm

Youknowho says:
January 17, 2018 at 12:12 pm

Maybe “whiteness” would not disapper as you fear if you adopted the Hispanic viewpoint. Very few Hispanics could pass for pure blood Spaniards. BUT they got a Spaniard in their ancestry, they are CAtholics and culturally Spanish, and they speak Spanish, so they count as Hispanics.

I actually do have that attitude, to an extent. I think that ideally the melting pot would work, and that white, black, Hispanic, and Asian Americans would essentially become one group of unhypenated Americans. In otherwords, an ethnogenesis of a new ethnic group, the American, sort of how the various European ethnic groups have more or less coalesced over the past 100 years to become a new ethnicity, white American.

But I don’t think that will actually happen. The melting pot model is outmoded and considered imperialist (if not outright white supremacist) in this day and age. Ethnic separatism is the order of the day. Plus, I think to really mix and create a cohesive new identity, we would need to have a very long pause in immigration (likely a century or more) to allow the recent wave to truly assimilate and intermingle. I do not see that happening.

Given that reality, we’re faced with two options- realize that you are going to be treated by the basis of your ethnic group (in my case white) and learn to act accordingly for your interests, or be steamrolled.

#25 Comment By Erdrick On January 18, 2018 @ 4:29 pm

Finally, I’d say that the canary in the coal mine for this issue for me is the switch from attacking racism to attacking white supremacy. The rhetoric has changed from attacking actions and thoughts in a way that’s applicable to all to exclusively attacking the supposed white power structures that are holding down everyone else. Under this new ideology, white people in general are carriers of the indelible original sin of whiteness. We’re oppressors regardless of who we are, what we do, or where we came from, simply because we’re white Americans.

There are few who can meaningfully separate calls to destroy “whiteness” from calls to attack white people. If enough people keep alive the narrative of white supremacy being the cause of all of mankind’s ills, then I doubt that a peaceful Siarlys Jenkins option will be allowed. In light of that, forecasts (let alone celebrations) of white people becoming a minority in the US are troubling.