South Toward Biscuits

By Rod Dreher • September 4, 2012, 12:57 PM

I have two daughters, Dixie and Matilda, and when we go down South, they are surrounded with love from the moment we cross the Mason-Dixon. Elderly men tip their hats. Cashiers tell them they are beautiful. To be a girl these days is more fraught than ever. But growing up among Southern women sure makes it easier.

Which is why we are moving back home. I want my children to know they belong to something bigger than themselves. That they are unique, but they are not alone. That there is continuity where they come from. Comfort too. That there are rules worth following and expectations worth trying to meet, even if you fail. If nothing else, I want them to know how to make biscuits. And to not feel bad about eating a whole heaping plate of them.

This is not really a post about biscuits, but about wanting your children to have the good things you had in your culture. Everything Allison Glock writes here I have thought, and written, myself. Maybe you feel that way about where you’re from too. I was so encouraged by the recent thread we had about New England here — encouraged by so many New Englanders talking about what they love about their region. I’d love it if you would use this thread to talk about what you’re glad your kids are going to grow up with, regarding your regional culture, or, if you live outside the culture in which you grew up, what you’re sorry they will miss.

(H/T: Peter K.)

21 Responses to South Toward Biscuits

jaybird says:

September 4, 2012 at 1:23 pm

This summer, my son got to spend a lot of time “Up North”, which is Michigander-speak for pretty much anywhere North of Mt. Pleasant. He got a week with my extended family on Lake Huron, and a week with my wife’s family up near Traverse City on Lake Michigan. He’s just now the age I was when I first remember going Up North as a kid, and getting to experience for the first time all the things I remember doing: climbing the Sleeping Bear Dunes, Mackinac Island fudge, the Traverse City Cherry Festival, crossing the Mackinac Bridge to the U.P. for the first time, fake Indian arrowheads at the highway tourist-trap stands, smoked Lake Superior whitefish, seeing white-pine and birch forests, Tahquamenon Falls… He also got to take in a couple Detroit Tigers games this summer, run the bases… Pure Michigan™
Sam M says:

September 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm

Not sure where to go with this. Where I am from, we tell ourselves a lot of stories about how “hard working” we are. It makes us feel good. Except… it’s not really true. I am not saying people form here don’t work hard, but the idea that we put in more hours, or are more dedicated, simply doesn’t bear investigation at all.

I am a little curious as to how this person will view being “home.” Yes, in the past, when you crossed the Mason-Dixon you experienced these things. But that’s easy to do when you are coming home for weddings, funerals and society events that put you in close contact with you and yours.

When you live there and your kids are in schools with the trailer park people, and your neighbor works on the mud buggy until 4 am with his rowdy friends, the bubble of the myth pretty much goes away.

You can counter this by living in a gated community and sending your kid to the private academy. But then your love letter to place was never to that place at all. It was to class.

There’s a general sense in my parts that men will protect their women from insults, that kids respect their elders, that people can drop a running deer at 300 yards–all in excess of what you might see in other regions. But again…. these things aren’t true. At least as far as I can tell. At least among the general population.

I think it’s fine to build a mythology and try to live up to it. And I do think it’s possible that certain women in Dallas do their make-up differently than do certain women in Cleveland. Still, I think this lady might be setting herself up for a rude awakening.
Joe the Plutocrat says:

September 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm

RD, are you suggesting “…it takes a village (culture) to raise a child?” I have spent time in New England, the NYC metro are, the MD/DC/VA area and “the south” and I can say that ALL cultures/regions have both good and bad. while it is nostalgic to wax about elderly men tipping hats and whatnot; there are just a many elderly men whose intentions are far more nefarious. to wit; if you want your children to enjoy homemade biscuits (and gravy!) teach them to make buscuits. when I lived in the south there was an amazing soul food joint a block from my home. the “elderly men” were polite, but the cowered in the presence of the matriarch who ran the joint. I used to take my daughter there to eat, not ettiquette lesons. that said; no longer in the south; I miss the biscuits!
David says:

September 4, 2012 at 1:56 pm

I would have loved my boys to truly appreciate the hot dogs,italian and polish sausages,gyros and italian beef sandwiches served by colorful,ethnic cultures. sometimes the diet in north georgia can be so bland.I do truly miss living in a ethnically diverse area.Sometimes when I was growing up and would complain about this group or that group she would tell me “what a boring world it would be if we all thought alike!” How true.
Siarlys Jenkins says:

September 4, 2012 at 1:58 pm

There is a lot of truth to that. Visting down south, I’ve notice how polite children are, whatever their color, and how relaxed the adults are.

But before a father feels too safe about their daughters, the poor white trash child molester in “The Green Mile” is a very real part of the south too. There are men who will “yes ma’am” and “no ma’am” and drool for the opportunity to catch her in a dark corner of forest…

But having just gagged on soggy biscuits sandwiching low-grade sausage egg and cheese in a northern hotel lobby… Yes, I could do with some of those fresh flaky biscuits…
Al-Dhariyat says:

September 4, 2012 at 2:03 pm

I don’t know if I’ll end up raising a family in Pittsburgh but I wouldn’t be disappointed to do so. Even if I left again for a time, I’d try to come back. I can’t quit this place.

The longer I live here the most I appreciate the rhythms of the seasons, an actual changes of seasons. (Yes I’m one of those who touts changeofseasons). I can’t stand flatland (ie, Ohio). I love Pittsburgh’s topography – rivers that merge at the Confluence, that meander as much as flow; mountains so beaten down that they’re more like huge hills. And that’s a metaphor for my people.

We’ve seen our fair share of hardships. There’s memory here. People will be exceedingly kind and at the same time, a bit gruff. We ain’t perfect and no one says so. And pride in this area isn’t likely to turn into hubris (unless you insult our football).

Most of all, I love a crisp, sunny fall or winter’s day here. When my neighbors and friends ask me, “So what’re yinz doin’ for the game?” I know exactly what they’re asking. Yeah, I’m wearing Stillers Black & Gold.
Dave Dutcher says:

September 4, 2012 at 2:12 pm

That article may say one thing, but it actually argues at how stifling being a Southern Belle is. Good luck being a bookworm who doesn’t particularly want kids and resents being called beautiful by perfect strangers. If this were written about the North, they’d be extolling the virtues of being prep.

The dark side to a strong culture and roots is the difficulty in making your own identity under them as opposed to being poured into a mold. And reading the full article, the mold is detailed and the oven is really hot.
JaredK says:

September 4, 2012 at 2:55 pm

As my wife and I prepare to welcome our first child who is due in under 2 weeks now, topics such as this are certainly on my mind. My wife and I are transplanted in San Diego. Yet I am from St. Louis and she’s from Chattanooga.

I am continually longing to find my way back to the Midwest. My nieces and nephews live blocks from one another. The other day I saw a video of my niece splashing around in puddles during a big rain storm – not exactly the kind of thing we can look forward to in southern California (I know someone is going to point out that we can splash in the ocean instead) But as much as I miss the seasons, obviously I primarily miss family and wish my daughter could grow up amidst throngs of cousins.

It’s going to be interesting to see how we feel a few months after the birth. Will we feel at home here and finally resign ourselves to settling in SD? Or will we look at each other and our daughter and say “Yeah… we gotta get back home”.
EngineerScotty says:

September 4, 2012 at 2:58 pm

It’s probably a useful exercise to abstract the above passage, so residents of other locales can fill in the blanks as appropriate:

I have [number and names of children or other loved-ones as appropriate], and when we go [colloquial name for hometown or region], they are surrounded with love from the moment we cross the [landmark or geographical feature at the border of hometown or region]. [List of examples of good manners in culture]. To be a [member of a demographic group or subculture, particularly one which is young, disadvantaged, or discriminated against] these days is more fraught than ever. But growing up among [elite group within hometown or region] sure makes it easier.

Which is why we are moving back home. I want my [persons identified above traveling with me] to know they belong to something bigger than themselves. That they are unique, but they are not alone. That there is continuity where they come from. Comfort too. That there are rules worth following and expectations worth trying to meet, even if you fail. If nothing else, I want them to know how to make [stereotypical regional cuisine, particularly one regarded as "comfort food"]. And to not feel bad about [consuming] a whole heaping [container] of [appropriate pronoun].
John E_o says:

September 4, 2012 at 2:59 pm

It might be worth a passing mention for those who didn’t click through that this article is from a magazine that styles itself: “Garden and Gun – Soul of the South”
Floridan says:

September 4, 2012 at 3:00 pm

Oh please, from the opening photograph of three Junior Leaguers to the treacly assertions of Southern ladies special love of babies, this article represents its subject about as accurately as Gone With the Wind faithfully depicts antebellum plantation life.

I’ve lived in the South all my life, and I like living here (especially grits). My father’s family has resided in various southern states since the 1700s. As a kid we visited relatives living on rural farms in southwest Georgia, small towns in the old part of Florida and in southern cities.

While I do recognize some traits described in the article, other than superficialities I’ve seen them exhibited by my mother’s family in Rochester, New York, just a surely as I have from kin in Albany, Georgia.
Beyng says:

September 4, 2012 at 3:14 pm

Dave Dutcher,

You’re drastically overstating the level of conformity required in the South, even the rather naively idealistic portrait of the South sustained by the biscuit-lover above. I knew (and know) plenty of “bookworms who [didn't] particularly want kids”–though who “resents” being complimented for one’s beauty?

You note an valid phenomenon: a robust and rooted culture comes with tradeoffs, many of them related to individual expression. It might be more difficult to be a homosexual atheist communist in the South than it would be in, say, Portland. But that doesn’t mean that all the ladies in the South strut around in gowns while blushing behind hand fans on the porches of former plantations.

Actually, however, this implicates two qualifications:

1) Ever heard of the “New South”? This question is directed to Rod. The original author’s image of a chivalric South is dead, or at least dying. The “New South” is primarily an economic designation, referring to the South’s rapid transition from agrarian pursuits to Yankee industrialism. But with that transition has come a documented decline in class sensibility, manners and hospitality, and, in general, many of the cultural features that are regarded as essential to stereotypical phantasies of the old South. I suspect that a homosexual atheist communist, though still most at home in Portland, would be more comfortable in the South of 2012 than in the South of, say, 1980 or even 1990.

2) Did I mention that the biscuit-lover’s vision is naive? The South of perfect manners–even if it weren’t dying–is restricted to certain locales and certain classes. I grew up in the white trash trailer park milieu of the South. It’s radically different, to say the least, and less desirable than his airy notions. It’s also much, much more widespread in the South than he seems to think.
Laser says:

September 4, 2012 at 4:02 pm

I live in Colorado and am one of the few who is actually from here. I’m not going ot leave it beacause the mountains are too beautiful, and the weather is too good. However, there really is nothing left of the Colorado culture I grew up with. It’s been overwhelmed by the Californians, New Yorkers and Texans who have overwhelmed the small contingent of natives. Now we have the commuter culture and traffic of LA, the leftism of cosmopolitan East Coasters, and the third world problems of unchecked illegal immigrants.

Other than the Broncos and the 14ers, I don’t really know what my kids will have as a birthright that is unique from anywhere else in the country. It’s sad how places like teh South, the Midwest and New England can maintain their individual character, while the Colorado Front Range is a formless mish mash.
Joe Magarac says:

September 4, 2012 at 4:19 pm

I grew up in Pittsburgh, moved away for a decade that included college and law school, and was lucky enough to return, get married, and start raising kids here. What I hope they’ll get from our regional culture, which is as distinct as the topography (hilly) and the dialect (insane):

1. They’ll be gruff, with hearts of gold. In Pittsburgh, strangers don’t fawn all over kids they don’t know, or hold up the line at the deli making small talk, or otherwise engage in the elaborate dance that is Southern culture as described by the biscuit-lover Rod to whom Rod linked. But Pittsburghers will acknowledge your existence in a gruff but friendly way. The woman at the deli counter will give your kid a lollipop. The people on the bus will all say “thank you” to the driver when they disembark. The pedestrian whom you walk past will look up, bark “How ya doin?,” and then look down again.

2. They’ll be neighborly without being nebby. Pittsburgh is less a big city than a loose confederation of small towns, most of which were initially settled by immigrants from a very specific part of the world (e.g., the Italians in Bloomfield are from five villages in Abruzzi; whereas the Italians in Aliquippa are from one village in Lazio, etc.). The neighborhoods are less ethnic today, but something of their initially close-knit character survives. You will know a little bit about everybody on your street, which also means knowing enough to keep your distance when appropriate.

3. They’ll have a work ethic. Pittsburgh was built by immigrants who toiled like slaves in the mills and mines. Like slavery itself, we can thank God that that kind of labor (12-hour days six days a week, plus a 24-hour day every two weeks) isn’t around here anymore. But Pittsburghers remember the hard work that their forebears did and will try to emulate it.
AnotherBeliever says:

September 4, 2012 at 7:59 pm

Jared, all my best with your expected little bundle of joy!

As some of you may know, I don’t have any geographic roots, per se. And my ethnic roots are mixed. Part of those roots are Hispanic. I really have enjoyed living in San Antonio – my grandfather was from around here, and it’s been a blast to live where things like crushing eggs over each other’s heads on Easter Day are not at all out of the ordinary. In fact, it’s so ordinary that they sell them pre-made at the grocery store, along with pinatas, and pinata sticks, and fresh hot tortillas and sweetbread.

As far as seasons, you can keep them.

It’s not a perfect culture, of course. But it goes back hundreds of years. And like the South, it’s a good culture to be a girl in. Latina women tend to have healthy body images. Of course, there’s a point past which being overweight becomes unhealthy, but Hispanic women embrace their curves, they don’t hide them or starve them, and they don’t obsess over diets or hop on a scale constantly. Men tend treat their mothers and wives and daughters like queens. Not quite spoiled queens, there is a strain of machismo which can be unhealthy if it’s too strong. But that is balanced out mostly by the fact that this IS the United States, not rural Mexico, and so women are encouraged to take advantage of educational and vocational opportunity as much as men.

This culture could stand some improvement in regards to education, however. High school and college completion rates are far below average. It’s something this city is working on, at least, with a number of initiatives. Hard to say how those will turn out, but something needs to be done.
lancelot lamar says:

September 4, 2012 at 9:26 pm

I am from Kansas but live in Texas.

I am sad my boys will miss cool Mays and Septembers, and beautiful, golden Octobers. I am sad they will miss the small town quality of the whole state (there are many more people in Dallas and Fort Worth than all of Kansas.) I am sad they will miss the reticence and modesty of the people, in their dress, manners, and especially in how they display their wealth. Not nearly so many McMansions of dreadful taste, no big hair, little bling. I am sad they will miss the melancholy quiet of many of the people, although they probably get too much of that from me already.

When my wife’s mom dies we might move back there, but it may be too late by then. They’ll be Texans, although they love, love, love to visit their Kansas cousins now.
Sam M says:

September 5, 2012 at 7:09 am

Joe Magarac:

“They’ll have a work ethic.”

It’s interesting that you and I are from the same general area of the country, and have come to such different conclusions about local culture.

What’s the evidence that people work harder? I know that locals attribute this fact to everything from kids at ice cream stores to the local football team. But I just don’t see it. I know a lot of people who suffered through the collapse of the steel industry who blame it as much on the “13 week vacation” as they do on the greed of US Steel.

If people do work harder per capita, it ought to be evident. Does the city have fewer workers than others its size? Do teachers teach more students? Do college kids at Pitt graduate in fewer years, on average?

Rod: I’d be interested in a sister post to this: Sure, what’s great about your place’s culture. But also, what’s BS about its reputation?

Or is asking this question in and of itself a betrayal of place?
Joe Magarac says:

September 6, 2012 at 8:20 am

Sam -

I have never understood the Pittsburgh work ethic to involve working harder or more quickly than someone without it. Rather, I think it means understanding that work is a valuable and important part of life, that you show respect for yourself and for others if you show up on time and don’t leave until a job is done, etc. If I had to measure the Pittsburgh work ethic, I would look at things like worker absenteeism, rates of claims for abuse or injury in the workplace, etc.

The Tribune-Review recently wrote that John Boyd Jr., a consultant who advises corporations on where to locate home and branch offices, said that “What makes Pittsburgh attractive to corporations is the often-cited work ethic of its residents, which ranks among the best in the nation.” I don’t know how he calculated that, but apparently he did.

Other things that I hope my kids take away from Pittsburgh’s culture:

4. An insistence that a block party, neighborhood street fair, or other celebration is not complete without a massive fireworks display; and

5. A belief that sandwiches are better with french fries inside them, and that salads are better with french fries on top.
Sam M says:

September 6, 2012 at 11:14 am

I’m still not buying it. Here’s the article I am guessing you are referring to:

http://www.theboydcompany.com/pdf/Pittsburgh_Trib_HQ.pdf

Looks an awful lot like the real reason companies relocate there is becasue… other ones left and the rent is cheap. Also, lots of trained, unemployed workers means low turnover.

Look. I am not saying people from Pittsburgh are lazy. I just keep seeing amorphous claims to “courtesy” and “hard work” being aplied to entire regions, and very little effort to prove the claim.

I am guessing that the truth of the claim matters very little, though. It’s part of a mythology that we use to train the kids. You tell them that hard work matters to “us” in order to make it matter for “them.” Which is a good thing.

I just think it’s probably untrue.

I wonder if Mr. Boyd would be willing to clue us in as to which part of the country is filled with lazy slobs who hate to work.

I bet he’ll never get a consulting gig there again.
Joe Magarac says:

September 6, 2012 at 2:59 pm

Sam -

It doesn’t seem like you want to be persuaded, so I’m going to stop trying. I have spoken to manufacturers in the South who said that they relocated from Pittsburgh because the labor costs and other costs in the South were so low. They all complained about the lack of a Pittsburgh work ethic among the guys at the plants – absenteeism was high, misbehavior was common, etc. – but ultimately concluded that it still cost less to have the plant down South and to deal with these issues as they came up. I don’t know how you prove that empirically, even if it was as clear as day to the guys I spoke with.
Sam M says:

September 6, 2012 at 6:51 pm

I am more than happy to be convinced. And there are empirical ways to look at it. For instance, your anecdote would seem to argue that Pittsburgh workers are less productive per dollar of input. If you don’t like tha measure, here’s a survey in which my much beloved Pittsburgh does not crack the top 25. http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2364-hardest-working-towns.html I am willing to be convinced. Are you?