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Roseanne Deserved It

Do you understand what just happened? ABC cancelled the No. 3 show on television, because it would not be associated with its crazy, racist star. That’s huge. And, ABC made the correct decision.

How could they carry on with her after she tweeted this? “VJ” is Valerie Jarrett, an Obama White House assistant?

This is what a big financial deal this is to ABC. [1] From the NYT:

change_me

Although the second season of “Roseanne” was not scheduled to air for four months, the timing of Ms. Barr’s racist post was terrible for ABC. She wrote the message just two weeks after the network made its pitch to advertisers about its coming fall lineup, with the hope of attracting up to $9 billion in advertising commitments by summer’s end. “Roseanne,” and its enormous audience and broad appeal, was the centerpiece of ABC’s presentation. Ms. Barr was introduced to the stage at Lincoln Center’s David Geffen Hall before any other ABC executive or star.

This is not about “political correctness.” Had Roseanne Barr stated an unpopular opinion, but done so civilly, no big deal. But she didn’t do that.

She called a black woman an ape.

She deserved what she got. Just so you’ll recall what a vulgar person she is, above, Roseanne back in the 1990s, after belting out the National Anthem as an extended screech. Hear it here [2], if you can stand it.

UPDATE: I know, I know: the artist is separate from her art. If I enjoyed Roseanne shows to begin with, I would continue to do so, even though she is demonstrably a nasty wack-job. But as a business proposition, ABC would take a massive blow from this if they stood by her.

“But,” you say, “that’s all the NFL owners are doing with the mandatory National Anthem rule: protecting their business interests.” You have something of a point, but the comparison is faulty. A quiet political protest is not the same thing as calling a black person an ape. Colin Kaepernick’s pig socks are in that ballpark, [3] certainly, but the NFL kneelers on the whole aren’t wearing pig socks.

It is a sign of civic health that someone who is making a fortune for a TV network can still lose her position when she indulges in disgusting rhetoric like that. Some things you can’t say in public without consequence. Where we draw that line will always be under contention, but we ought to all agree that Roseanne Barr crossed it.

246 Comments (Open | Close)

246 Comments To "Roseanne Deserved It"

#1 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 3:57 pm

EarlyBird: “And let’s not miss the point that this pointed yet civil act was being done to protest police murdering Americans.”

Leaving aside the fact that not all police shootings being protested were in fact unjustified, I’ve pointed this out but have never gotten a satisfactory answer:

Why hasn’t Kaepernick and other like-minded players, on their own time and out of uniform, protested in front of their local police stations, and outside police union meetings?

Kneeling at a game, with the cameras rolling… that’s symbolic. And convenient. And involves no direct action to address the problem.

#2 Comment By Rusty On May 30, 2018 @ 4:45 pm

For those of you riding the fire-Bill-Maher hobby horse:

ABC decided against renewing Maher’s contract for Politically Incorrect in 2002, after he made a controversial on-air remark six days after the September 11 attacks.

He’s on HBO now, and you have to subscribe to watch. Your outrage was literally assuaged 15 years ago, so I guess it makes sense that you’re still angry.

[4]

#3 Comment By VikingLS On May 30, 2018 @ 5:49 pm

@Rusty

WOW that’s ONE. That totally means Conservatives don’t have any right to complain! One whole liberal lost his show. The liberal other liberals insist they don’t like.

#4 Comment By grumpy realist On May 30, 2018 @ 5:55 pm

For those who say “it was just one tweet!”–well—NO. Those in the know say that the powers-that-be at ABC had been getting more and more upset about the stream of lunacy Roseanne was putting out on her Twitter feed (is there a conspiracy story the woman hasn’t fallen for?) and, well, this was just the last straw.

(You do understand “the last straw”, don’t you?)

#5 Comment By Alex S. On May 30, 2018 @ 6:10 pm

No one cares about where Maher gets fired or not for calling Trump the offspring of an orangutan; that’s not the point.

I don’t really believe those who condemn Roseanne publicly because of the double-standards. It’s all virtue signaling. It boils down to tribalism, pure and simple. This is not a natural state for conservatives or classical liberals, who tend to see people as individuals, not as members belonging to a group.

This weapon that is used against Roseanne will be the same one wielded against orthodox Christians when the time comes. ‘Homophobe’ will have the same magic as ‘racist’. Perhaps even Dreher is next. Will he stick to his guns even when advertisers, publishers, etc. start pulling their support for him because of his ‘regressive, bigoted’ views on homosexuality, abortion, etc.?

This thing is going to end in a real shooting war (actually, I’d argue it’s already started). There are two world views in this country that are absolutely irreconcilable. If you are wondering why ‘bitter clingers’ are so intractable, this is why; they understand exactly what is coming. We’re living through the first attempt in history at a Marxist revolution in a country with 400M+ weapons in private hands. There’s no precedent for it.

#6 Comment By Ellimist000 On May 30, 2018 @ 8:34 pm

kgsamart,

“I don’t think we’re going to like the way some of them will choose to “deal with it.”

Meh, what are they going to do? Vote a clown into office and give well-off leftists like me tax cuts? (Sanders 2020! :P)

Or perhaps you mean violence? Well, the ones that are inclined to violence probably already are, and very possibly always have been, just being more noticed now because of scrutiny of Trump-style politics and public outrage over the cases where police egregiously got away with murder.

And for others, well, in case you haven’t noticed, they threaten violence for anything. That’s what they mean by the “individual 2nd amendment” and “tyranny”. A black moderate becomes president? 2nd amendment. Democrats implement a Republican healthcare plan? 2nd amendment. Free people in a democracy outvote them? 2nd amendment.

There is all the inequality, the horrible things done to immigrants or people in cities like Flint, or the brutal consequences to our soldiers in our wars of choice, but that’s not the Trump’s conservatives at all. That’s just the garden variety ones (and, to be fair, plenty of conservative and centrist Democrats).

They’ve been doing all of this for a long time. I’m not exactly shaking in my boots (and my give-a-d**n is wearing thin).

“The left needs to stop pretending/hoping the “deplorables” will go gentle into that good night.”

See, now go back and re-read my comment. I’m not suggesting, pretending or hoping they “go gentle into that good night”. That idea is a delusion in the “deplorables” minds. This hysterical victim complex is both frightening and amusing.

If they feel like they are seeing, “that good night”, that’s just all the black people who are approaching equal footing with them. Sorry if that scares them, but…see my previous statement.

#7 Comment By Fran Macadam On May 30, 2018 @ 8:35 pm

“[NFR: This is a thread about Roseanne Barr, not about evolution. Please stop. — RD]”

Well at least I have always found Roseanne obnoxious, and what she said obnoxious for the reasons I perceive. However, calling a person of African heritage (or someone who appears to be) an ape, clearly coincides with beliefs that some are more evolved than others, and thus is insulting and inflammatory. If that weren’t so, then it would be as mundane as calling Jethro on the Beverly Hillbillies, “ya big ape.”

The Scopes “Monkey Trial” still resonates throughout the culture, Barr none. Isn’t what she said a dumbed-down, rude version of HBD and John Derbyshire, who was similarly defenestrated? What about Steve Sailer, intelligent and entertaining though he might be? It’s got to be about more than this one woman of historically obnoxious personality and opinion.

Sorry for arguing…

#8 Comment By Ellimist000 On May 30, 2018 @ 8:38 pm

Pete S,

“Owners who claimed that they did this because the protests are hurting the league economically are full of it.”

Shhhh, keep it down! Don’t you want to see this blow up in their faces? 😛

#9 Comment By KS On May 30, 2018 @ 9:11 pm

@JimDandy,

Ofcourse the russia obsession is ridiculous. As was the birther rubbish. And the trans bathroom diktat. And the libya war. And the bank bailouts. And the iraq war. And Ken Stars entire two years of ‘investigation’. And Clintons ‘impeachment’.

Do we need to go on?

#10 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On May 30, 2018 @ 9:27 pm

Why hasn’t Kaepernick and other like-minded players, on their own time and out of uniform, protested in front of their local police stations, and outside police union meetings?

Because they found themselves standing for a National Anthem celebrating freedom and liberty with gratitude, and that got them thinking that we aren’t really there yet.

Based up on the Ferguson incident, which turned out to be a tissue of lies.

Its true that the federal justice department, supervised by Eric Holder, found no basis for criminal charges against officer Wilson. It appeared that George Brown had been aggressive, reactive, and really stupid. When stupid includes reaching for a police officer’s fun, even without particularly coherent intent, the results can be lethal.

It is ALSO true that the investigation found a rampant pattern of police abuse of the citizens of Ferguson, such that it was only natural they initially believed the worst of Wilson’s confrontation with Brown. I might add that, although I haven’t had access to the full set of evidence a jury should have had submitted to it, I have a distinct impression that the killing of Tamir Rice was an act showing reckless disregard for human life, which in many states is called second degree murder.

Polichinello is in deep denial about why Kaepernick shifted to a formal kneel. And his last comment is utterly unresponsive to the line he claims to be answering.

A strong argument could be made that America’s police have a much more noble calling than the pawns of our horrible foreign policy,

A significant number of them are not living up to that high calling. And when they fall abysmally short, while clothed with the authority of We The People and wield a taxpayer-financed gun, no, they do not deserve respect.

#11 Comment By Ellimist000 On May 30, 2018 @ 9:38 pm

“I was actually referring specifically to political violence…”

Yes, MM. So was I.

“Would you mind telling everyone what ugly spirit or cultural value inspired the perpetrator of this?

[5]

I don’t know? Mental illness and trouble at home? Isn’t that what people usually say when a mass shooter is a white supremacist instead of an aggrieved black man or a Muslim?

Look (by the Grace of God) there is simply no comparable history of assassinations of either congressmen or presidents (though for all of the presidents who were assassinated, none were members of the conservative party at the time. Just sayin’). I mean it’s not like Kathy pretended to shoot Trump (a joke, don’t get bent out of shape).

Oh and thanks for ignoring all the other reasons I stated for why the public perception of Kathy is SOMEWHAT different than Roseanne.

I mean, nobody is defending this guy or Kathy. I don’t understand why you folks can’t just say the joke is bad and move on. Why the need to constantly try to one-up black people in the oppression department?

#12 Comment By Ellimist000 On May 30, 2018 @ 9:44 pm

“You want Bill Maher’s head? Go ahead and take it. You’ll not find many liberals willing to defend him.”

Careful, Eddie, joking about the beheading of some stupid, rich, TV a–hole is equivalent to decades of ethnic oppression and terrorism, apparently. 😉

#13 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 9:55 pm

Ellimist000: “I don’t know? Mental illness and trouble at home? Isn’t that what people usually say when a mass shooter is a white supremacist instead of an aggrieved black man or a Muslim?”

Thank you for meeting my expectations, namely avoiding the issue and the politics behind it. In that way, you’re no different than the current president AND the previous one.

Motive always matters. Especially when the perpetrator is telling you why he did it.

#14 Comment By Ellimist000 On May 30, 2018 @ 9:57 pm

“Polichinello is in deep denial about why Kaepernick shifted to a formal kneel. And his last comment is utterly unresponsive to the line he claims to be answering.”

Excellent comment (the whole thing, not just the dig against Polichinello!).

I would also note, not that Polichinello would know, because that would require a desire of understanding, that BLM did not start with Brown in Missouri, but with Martin in Florida. Who was not killed by a cop at all (but they still behaved like his life did not matter.) That is also an answer to the previous comment as to why folks might not necessarily protest around police stations (well, that and sheer self-preservation, given how police acted during some of the early widespread BLM protests).

It’s not JUST about the police. If anything the whole thing IS a protest of the nation. But no less unpatriotic than the phrase “Make America Great Again”.

#15 Comment By Winston On May 30, 2018 @ 10:03 pm

No country resembles US now more than South Africa at the brink of majority rule. Hello most common age of white Amerucans is 58-Roseanne Barr to not have a clue.

#16 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 10:05 pm

Jenkins: “Because they found themselves standing for a National Anthem celebrating freedom and liberty with gratitude, and that got them thinking that we aren’t really there yet.”

So then they are saying America is substandard, as a whole? There’s been no progress in 50 years, even after Obama?

I thought this was about police brutality, specifically. At least, that’s what Kaepernick claimed his reason was to begin with.

Anyway, you didn’t really answer my question. You just changed it and answered your own question.

I surmise nobody has a good answer to that question, the players especially, because there really isn’t a coherent or focused protest being made. It’s whatever anybody feels like at any given time, because Trump opened his big mouth for example, or Starbucks, or something like that.

#17 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 10:31 pm

Eddie: “You want Bill Maher’s head? Go ahead and take it. You’ll not find many liberals willing to defend him.”

Maher, Dershowitz, Lieberman, Paglia, Rubin, the list goes on.

I just love the irony. When push comes to shove, peace, love, and tolerance take a back seat to ideological purification.

Hell of a way to continue losing elections…

#18 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 10:36 pm

Ellimist000: “That is also an answer to the previous comment as to why folks might not necessarily protest around police stations.”

Right, because the police always open fire on peaceful protesters right outside the station. Especially famous atheletes and such.

You guys still have no logical answer as to why that sort of direct and morally brave protest hasn’t happened.

You’re just fishing for excuses. And not very good ones at that…

#19 Comment By MM On May 30, 2018 @ 10:42 pm

Ellimist000,

Yep, this was a real bloodbath:

[6]

“A review from the [Obama] Justice Department praised the Minneapolis Police Department for its restraint during an 18-day protest outside of a police station following the 2015 shooting of Jamar Clark, a Black man who was killed in a confrontation with two White officers.”

No sign of any athletes or celebrities, though. I guess they couldn’t fit it into their schedules, huh?

#20 Comment By AJ On May 31, 2018 @ 1:28 am

“She deserved what she got.”

One read/heard that in the mainstream media 24/7, which begs the question, why TAC? What are its distinctives?

#21 Comment By JimDandy On May 31, 2018 @ 3:27 am

ME: A strong argument could be made that America’s police have a much more noble calling than the pawns of our horrible foreign policy,

YOU: A significant number of them are not living up to that high calling. And when they fall abysmally short, while clothed with the authority of We The People and wield a taxpayer-financed gun, no, they do not deserve respect.

****

“A significant number of them,” eh? Your rebuttal doesn’t make sense. Have you gotten the exact stats on their heroism in the line of duty vs. what you perceive to be the “abysmal” failings of some bad apples? You seem to be driven purely by resentment:

“No, they do not deserve respect.”

This is the epitome of petty, blind hatred. The thin blue line is very real, and you are offensively smearing true heroes because you are so caught up in your narcissistic addiction to virtue signaling. You should check yourself. Seriously.

#22 Comment By Sdb On May 31, 2018 @ 3:42 am

I don’t think Maher should have been taken off the air for his comments, but his situation is not analogous to Barr’s. Like the NFL protestors, he said what he said on the job. Barr didn’t. There is a big difference between walmart firing a greeter who wants to tell every shopper about his personal lord and savior Jesus Christ and firing a greeter who does door to door evangelism in the evenings after work. I understand that private comments by public figures affect their value to their employer. I don’t think that should trump their right to free speech anymore than it trumps their right to practice their religion.

#23 Comment By GSW On May 31, 2018 @ 9:46 am

“crazy, racist star… She deserved what she got… what a vulgar person she is…” @RD

“Thou conclud’st like the sanctimonious pirate that went to sea with the ten commandments but scraped one out of the table.” Measure for Measure

“guys I did something unforgiveable so do not defend me… i went 2 far & do not want it defended-it was egregious Indefensible. I made a mistake I wish I hadn’t but…don’t defend it please.” Barr

Repentance and redemption – even for the worst sinner – are central to the Christian message. I think her Planet of the Apes tweet is less telling about the character of our age than the reaction to it.

“in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting’ Off with his head!’ or ‘Off with her head!’ about once in a minute.” Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland

#24 Comment By M_Young On May 31, 2018 @ 10:04 am

Domenico Montinaro, NPRs “political editor”, likened Trump to an ape in a cage before the election (the context was Trump’s shuttling from PA to MI to OH and back and forth again just as a caged gorilla goes from wall to wall looking for a way out) The joke was on old Domenico.

[NFR: You are an intelligent man. You know perfectly well why calling a non-black person an ape/gorilla/monkey is not the same thing as calling a black person one. — RD]

#25 Comment By VikingLS On May 31, 2018 @ 12:07 pm

Think Samantha Bee will now have her show cancelled for calling Ivanka Trump the C word?

#26 Comment By Carol On May 31, 2018 @ 12:33 pm

Roseanne should have said that her account was hacked. It worked for MSNBC’s Joy Reid.

#27 Comment By connecticut farmer On May 31, 2018 @ 12:39 pm

Scoped out Valerie Jarrett’s bio in Wiki. Quite impressive! Can’t help but remark on the irony that the progs, who never tire of reminding us that they stand in foursquare opposition to what they call white “privilege”, are now defending a woman who epitomizes that very characteristic–and with a capital “P.” As to that dopey Barr woman, she handed them the sword which they promptly buried up her fat backside. And incidentally Rod, while I “get” your response to contributor M_Young, unfortunately your response begs the question: Why should ANYONE have to engage in name calling in order to make a point–whether its Roseanne Barr or an NPR commentator?

#28 Comment By MM On May 31, 2018 @ 5:13 pm

Viking: “Think Samantha Bee will now have her show cancelled?”

Are you kidding? That sort of thing can be very good for business, provided you aren’t conservative.

She’ll get awards. Maybe a pay raise.

#29 Comment By JonF On May 31, 2018 @ 6:40 pm

Re: No country resembles US now more than South Africa at the brink of majority rule.

Hardly. White people were always a minority in South Africa– and they were divided into two tribes, English-speakers and Afrikaans-speakers– read up on the Boer War for an instance of white people being horrible to white people.

#30 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On May 31, 2018 @ 10:43 pm

This is the epitome of petty, blind hatred. The thin blue line is very real, and you are offensively smearing true heroes

Not so. I would never smear a true hero. I would only smear a venal, self-serving, swaggering egoist masquerading as a true hero. Unfortunately, our police departments are not entirely free of the latter.

So then they are saying America is substandard, as a whole

Nope. They’re interrupting a routinized celebration of greatness to highlight some deficiencies that need attention. I did answer your question about why during the anthem. Because the message implied in the recitation of the anthem needed some caveats.

#31 Comment By MM On June 1, 2018 @ 2:05 am

Jenkins: “I did answer your question about why during the anthem.”

My question was not, why protest during the anthem. Like I said, you’re just answering a question I never asked in order to avoid having to think up a logical answer.

My question was, why not protest right outside his local police station, since that’s what Kaepernick’s original grievance was all about.

Why not quit football and go into politics, for that matter?

Neither you, nor these athletes, have good answers to those questions.

#32 Comment By Matt On June 1, 2018 @ 7:21 am

Christians will have businesses, property and homes cancelled to the cries of ” they deserve it ” for what Christians say.
The virtue signaling will not go in a direction people expect, trial and conviction will be played out on TV in minutes.

The punishment does not fit the crime, destroying the livelihoods of hundreds, can only be just to virtue signaling monsters. Monsters who live in the moral terror of their own thoughts being so honestly transmitted.

Even after the apology and retraction the virtue signallers rail and ball with no mercy at human frailty.

Rosanne is forgivable to Christians, but not to the arena stands of virtue signaling monsters.

#33 Comment By Max On June 1, 2018 @ 10:15 am

Are you seriously not going to not follow up on this w/r/t Samantha Bee?

The fact that nominal “conservatives” will rush to condemn Rosanne — and rightly so — but not lift a finger when the same bile is directed towards the right (and instead spend time blogging about TV shows) is a huge part of why all the energy on the right is going to the Alt-Right and Neoreaction.

[NFR: Samantha Bee deserves what she gets. It is also the case that her show was already in ratings collapse — [7] — before she mouthed off. Roseanne Barr’s show, on the other hand, was the No. 3 rated show in the entire country, and a real pop culture phenomenon. You’re asking me to pretend that, say, the Governor of Rhode Island’s mouthing off matters as much as POTUS’s. — RD]

#34 Comment By MM On June 1, 2018 @ 10:42 am

Jenkins: “They’re interrupting a routinized celebration of greatness to highlight some deficiencies that need attention.”

O.K. forget protesting the problem at the source. You guys obviously think a symbolic protest with minimual effort aimed at a captive audience is courageous and patriotic. I don’t, most NFL fans don’t, and most veterans don’t, but that’s fine.

For those who support Kaepernick & Company, why didn’t they take a knee during the anthem for this?

[8]

I mean, this has all the makings of a high-profile nationwide story, perfect for patriotic athletes and BLM protests and angry politicans demanding actions, right?

If police misconduct was the impetus and driving force, why no protest by the players?

Anybody? What’s the lame excuse this time?

#35 Comment By mrscracker On June 1, 2018 @ 12:26 pm

I’ve never seen either Samantha Bee or Roseanne Barr perform on TV & it doesn’t sound much like I’d want to now, either.
I suppose their contracts may be worded differently, but I’m having trouble understanding why one comment gets you fired but not the other?

#36 Comment By Max On June 1, 2018 @ 12:32 pm

“Samantha Bee deserves what she gets.”

But she’s not “getting” anything, nor is her network; her show may die, but her career will go on, and the network that not only allowed but promoted her vitriol will be unaffected. Keith Olbermann just got a multimillion-dollar contract. Kathy Griffin is coming back. SNL just aired a skit implying the assassination of Trump.

The blunt reality is that in 2018 the consequences for offensive speech are all about Who and Whom. Which is to be expected when we’re talking about the NYT/WaPo and other liberal organs … but the fact that conservative organs like NRO and TAC implicitly endorse it by being too highminded to sully themselves by fighting back is why we have Trump and the Alt-Right.

#37 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On June 1, 2018 @ 12:32 pm

MM, what in the world makes you think that the death of the autistic 6 year old was NOT a component of what Kaepernick was protesting???

I can’t speak for “You guys,” but my personal view is that we have a culture in many or most police departments that might be termed “legionary,” that is, ‘we are a uniformed brotherhood and all the world out there is chaos. We, the elite, may treat mere civilians in any manner we find convenient, and our first priority is our own survival, our second priority is serving our own, our third priority is our own pleasure.’

E.g., the officer who was on camera intercepting a man who had indeed parked across two disabled parking spots, who should certainly have written him an expensive ticket, who instead started menacing him and telling him “I own this, OK?” That assertion alone is grounds to fire the man.

Seconday to that, a good number of police officers feel even LESS restraint when dealing with people of dark skin color than with the rest of us.

The primary problem needs to be addressed regardless of race, creed, color, or national origin, and, the secondary problem needs to be recognized as well.

Are there good police officers? Yes, lots of them. I have a good friend who retired after 25 years on the DC police force. She was openly mourning for her comrades killed in Dallas. She is of undoubted African descent. I would trust her in any moving situation. There are officers who turn out for community events to take back the streets after two knuckle-heads who couldn’t hit each other shotting over who took whose baby-mama’s clothes managed to put a bullet in a ten year old girl on a playground. There are officers who take time to work with community gardens employing fatherless young African-American boys.

My question was, why not protest right outside his local police station, since that’s what Kaepernick’s original grievance was all about.

Why not quit football and go into politics, for that matter?

You are shifting ground to evade a perfectly sound answer to a frivolous question, a common form of sophistry. But, taking you at your word as to your original intent, my answer still applies to the revised questions you now present.

A capable football player who loves what they do and is making good money may well want to remain where they are. They may not even think they would be good at politics. Which doesn’t mean they may not make public comment as a citizen on what those who ARE in politics ought to be doing for we the people, whom they represent and serve.

Why not protest at the local police station could be a valid question, but it is not an alternative to making a statement where a citizen already works and is known. If an employee files a class action lawsuit over an employer cheating on tabulation of hours worked, do you tell them ‘Why don’t you become a lawyer?”

Anyone who either says “We must support our police at all times,” or “All cops are the enemy” are equally part of the same problem. We need to carefully weed out those officers who are not fit to carry a taxpayer-financed weapon, wear a badge, and exercise authority on behalf of We The People, those who do not know what it means to Protect and Serve.

#38 Comment By VikingLS On June 1, 2018 @ 2:56 pm

“Samantha Bee deserves what she gets.”

[9]

Like getting rewarded for advancing “social change” by the Television Academy?

#39 Comment By MM On June 1, 2018 @ 4:53 pm

Jenkins: “What in the world makes you think that the death of the autistic 6 year old was NOT a component of what Kaepernick was protesting.”

Well, for one, neither he nor any other athlete, BLM activist, or progressive politician has ever mentioned it, to my knowledge. And the Press, of course, chose not to make it a national headline, as they’ve done with other instances of police involved shootings.

The color of the officers and victim in this case probably had something to do with that.

And second, Kaepernick was very clear why he was protesting, going back to the very beginning when he first *sat* during the anthem:

[10]

Kaepernick: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color… To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

Until he proclaims otherwise, that’s all he cares about IMO. He even said it was bigger than football, so why isn’t he running for public office, or protesting outside the police stations of America?

Jenkins: “You are shifting ground to evade a perfectly sound answer to a frivolous question… Why not protest at the local police station could be a valid question.”

You guys spend an awful lot of time not providing logical answers to simple questions, which you can’t even decide are either frivolous or valid.

No, sir, these question go right to the heart of the matter as to whether these highly-paid celebrity athletes are morally consistent activists I can support or just amateur politicians I’d never vote for in a million years.

Your answers to my questions are what’s frivolous, absolutely devoid of substance. Avoid the issue, change the question. Not a surprise, of course, but par for the course with you guys…

#40 Comment By Ellimist000 On June 1, 2018 @ 7:36 pm

“For those who support Kaepernick & Company, why didn’t they take a knee during the anthem for this?”

Siarlys states the problem quite well. But also MM you REALLY shot yourself in the foot with this example.

First off let me say that this incident is horrible and I pray for that family. But you have situation where a man with a checkered past (who later was incarcerated) may or may not (because cops deserve the benefit of the doubt, right?) been legitimately stopped, ran from the cops, and hit the cop car. The cops then fired a ton of bullets, killing the man’s 6yo son.

However, as I am sure you know, the man and the boy are white. And the cops are black. “Oh dear, where is the outrage? This neglect is reverse racsim!”

Here is the thing though: those cops, as we speak, ARE IN JAIL! One got 40 years!

I won’t make assumptions about your honesty, but I would hope that you would be honest enough to admit that if the races were reversed, folks much like you would be claiming that the cops were only defending themselves, that the man was a criminal who endangered his child. I know because things like this have happened. Hell, if I looked I could probably find many instances of this exactly happening. Of the top of my head, black babies have been brutally injured because cops threw a grenade in an innocent persons house. Philando Castile behaved like a model gun owner and it is only by God’s grace that his child was not struck. Tamir Rice, a black child, was sitting on a gazebo with a toy gun, simply stood up and was shot on sight.

None of the cops in these incidents went jail. All had a broad base of defenders in the media and among a good segement of white America. In all cases, the right wing media made all excuses to let the cops off the hook and cast blame on the black people involved unless proven otherwise. Only the Castile case even went to trial. The guy who murdered Tamir wasn’t even fired for the incident, for God’s sake! THAT is why these men kneel.

I know you won’t believe me MM, but your statement horrifies me for it’s lack of grasp of reality. I have true concern for you and those who think as you,I mean it. I literally could not invent a more counter-productive example to what you were trying to say if I tried.

#41 Comment By Ellimist000 On June 1, 2018 @ 8:00 pm

MM, let me ask you a question,since you seem rightfully outraged about the 6 year old kid, how do you feel about Tamir Rice? Given the incidents I mentioned, do you disagree with idea that police getting away with unjustified violence is a problem? If you disagree, then I assume you must think many of the incidents have been justified. In that case, tell me when the cops who killed the white kid deserve to be in jail and not the BLM cases. And what would it take to make you believe it was a problem.

But if you DO believe that cop violence is a problem, then it is specifically the protest that you don’t like. So what would you rather them do? Truly disrupt police stations with protest? Block the streets? Boycott and otherwise economically damage cites that won’t agree to the BLM reform platform? Vote for the only politicians who will listen to them, even though they will ostracize the WWC and force Rod to officiate a gay wedding? 😛

Go all 2nd amendment on that police station?

Just what exactly do you want? And if it looks like “shut up, go away, and make white folks comfortable” well why should they? Would you shut up to make me comfortable?

#42 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On June 2, 2018 @ 12:15 am

Well, for one, neither he nor any other athlete, BLM activist, or progressive politician has ever mentioned it, to my knowledge.

There are probably quite a number of specific cases that he has not explicitly mentioned. There are rather too many to detail.

You guys spend an awful lot of time not providing logical answers to simple questions, which you can’t even decide are either frivolous or valid.

Is something wrong with your vision? Are you seeing double, triple, are you seeing multiple copies of me all talking to you at once? Who is “You guys”? I appreciate the kind words from Ellimist000, who seems to have a good, balanced grasp on this situation, but Ellimist000 isn’t me, and those kind words post-date your own gratuitous remark. Your wriggling, squirming, and responding to straightforward answers with evasive epithets reminds me of nothing so much as the ghetto thug caught red-handed who starts a non-stop rant of disconnected irrelevant words accusing anyone and everyone of anything and everything until everyone else drops the matter and goes away.

You have yet to respond in any substantive way to anything I’ve said. Facts hurt, but that’s not an excuse.

#43 Comment By MM On June 2, 2018 @ 1:09 am

Ellimist000: “But also MM you REALLY shot yourself in the foot with this example.”

I will remember this exchange, if for no other reason, because, while not so subtely suggesting that I’m a despicable, dishonest racist for pointing this out, simultaneously, and probably intentionally, mistated key facts in the Louisiana shooting case. I’m not sure whether you’re playing devil’s advocate or just rolling out the same lazy excuses for police misconduct that you criticize others for, though I really couldn’t care less.

I chose that particular example because it was the mirror opposite of Ferguson, which you’ve already dismissed, since it’s an inconvient example now that all the facts are known. The Louisiana shooting had everything critics of police misconduct could’ve wanted, including criminal charges and guilty verdicts. The officers responsible even tried to play the race card to avoid punishment, even after video evidence of the incident proved that the suspect DID NOT ram or back his car into the police and that he also had his hands up.

Yes, literally “hands up, don’t shoot,” but unlike Ferguson, where it was a lie that resulted in race riots, it was true in Louisiana. But there was absolutely no outrage or protests in the immediate aftermath. The New Orleans Saints never took a knee for Jeremy Mardis. Only the family demanded justice. None of you good progressives, if you even heard about it, condemned America as a sick society because of it.

But your bottom line conclusion, “that’s why they kneel,” just doesn’t pass the logic test. I’ll go ahead and put words in your mouth, since you’ve already done the same: Dubious protests by professional athletes, after CERTAIN high-profile police shootings, before or after all of the facts are known, are ALWAYS justified because either you don’t get the verdict you want based on the evidence, or you assume in advance there will never be any justice.

Really? Never?

[11]

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I can’t recall any athletes or protest leaders standing up and saying thank goodness for the American justice system after the Walter Scott verdict, or when any of these cases went to trial. These are good examples of the system working, but you’d never know that from listening to Kaepernick.

I’ve got to say, though I never expected to find any moral consistency, you guys have managed to bring a new level of PC to this discussion. Not political correctness. Pathological cynicism…

#44 Comment By MM On June 2, 2018 @ 1:15 am

Ellimist000: “Just what exactly do you want?”

Moral consistency. I don’t see it from these athletes. Or BLM. Or the ACLU. Civil libertarianism used to be color blind, at least when I was growing up.

Frankly, I don’t see it from anyone these days, Left or Right. But its still necessary to point out hypocrisy when it rears its head.

#45 Comment By Richard Parker On June 2, 2018 @ 2:53 am

“Kaepernick has pretty clearly been blacklisted. He QB’d the 49ers when they made it to the Super Bowl in ’13, and should probably be a starter –”

Not clear at all. Kapepernick’s exceptional running ability for a quarterback made him highly effective the first time around the league. As game film of him became available to opponents for pre-game planning, he turned out to be a one-trick pony whose effectiveness declined game by game. And he has gotten a little old to be potential “boy hero” coming off the bench.

I stopped watching the NFL because it had become a bad product, not due to any protestors. Gambling will keep the NFL alive. Fans will watch games that they bet on. Football is uniquely suited to betting the point spread.

Those of us who don’t gamble find the current product dull and slow.

#46 Comment By Siarlys Jenkins On June 3, 2018 @ 3:05 pm

I chose that particular example because it was the mirror opposite of Ferguson

Sure, who could forget that those evil meanies from Eric Holder’s justice department insisted on prosecuting Officer Wilson until he was sentenced to forty years in prison?

Yes, literally “hands up, don’t shoot,” but unlike Ferguson, where it was a lie that resulted in race riots, it was true in Louisiana.

Oh. Maybe that’s why officers got prosecuted in one case and not in the other?

The New Orleans Saints never took a knee for Jeremy Mardis.

Oh, I think they did. We all know there are corrupt, violent, overbearing, egotistical black cops. The officer who shot Sylville Smith was black, and possibly justified in shooting, but was probably prosecuted because he had indulged in so much other misconduct that his brother officers felt betrayed and nobody was backing him up. Anyway, the jury acquitted him.

Anyway MM, since you’re groping toward a diversity of different situations, what about Tamir Rice?