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	<title>Comments on: Veterans Only Day</title>
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		<title>By: Frank Golubski</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11344</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Golubski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11344</guid>
		<description>MBD: &quot;Short of a draft (which is abhorrent to me) there is no easy fix for this separation.&quot;

No &lt;i&gt;easy&lt;/i&gt; fix, perhaps, but there is a fix: The &quot;Swiss solution&quot; — a militia-based national defense coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Former Sen. Gary Hart just scratched the surface in his short 1998 book &lt;i&gt;The Minuteman: Returning to an Army of the People&lt;/i&gt;. While positing a citizen soldiery coupled (unfortunately) with interventionist presuppositions, he argues that, with every able-bodied American subject to call-up for military service, the citizenry would be much more involved in and attuned to America&#039;s foreign policy debates.

In 1936, anti-war warrior Maj. Gen. Smedley D. Butler (USMC) proposed an &quot;Amendment for Peace&quot; to the US Constitution (newly posted at my &quot;Just Warriors&quot; weblog). While he doesn&#039;t mention the militia &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt;, he seems to imply that, with no land forces stationed overseas and peacetime travel of US military ships and aircraft restricted by proximity to US seacoasts, a large professional military would be unnecessary.

Sean Scallon: &quot;What we are in danger of is creating a military caste who persons who think they have more rights and privliges because they do choose to wear a uniform.&quot;

Chilling. I have heard people occasionally suggest an idea akin to that portrayed in Heinlein&#039;s dystopian &lt;i&gt;Starship Troopers&lt;/i&gt;: You have to earn your citizenship by first serving in the military.

I truly believe that every able-bodied male has a moral obligation (otherwise governed by dictates of his conscience) to fight to defend his community and nation. As a USAF vet (1980-1983), there was a time (early-to-mid 90s) when I anticipated counseling my three sons to volunteer for a hitch in the &quot;real&quot; military — the Army or the Marines. By the end late 90&#039;s, having read Pat Buchanan, Joseph Sobran and others on the Gulf War, I was beginning to rethink that approach. Seeing our nation manipulated into invading Iraq after 9/11 cinched it for me.

Now I counsel my sons &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to volunteer. (While they might join for the right reasons, they would almost certainly be sent overseas for the &lt;i&gt;wrong&lt;/i&gt; reasons.)

I also tell them, &quot;If the draft is ever reinstated, be prepared to extend your arms, wrists up, and ask them, &#039;Where&#039;s my rockpile?&#039;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MBD: &#8220;Short of a draft (which is abhorrent to me) there is no easy fix for this separation.&#8221;</p>
<p>No <i>easy</i> fix, perhaps, but there is a fix: The &#8220;Swiss solution&#8221; — a militia-based national defense coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy.</p>
<p>Former Sen. Gary Hart just scratched the surface in his short 1998 book <i>The Minuteman: Returning to an Army of the People</i>. While positing a citizen soldiery coupled (unfortunately) with interventionist presuppositions, he argues that, with every able-bodied American subject to call-up for military service, the citizenry would be much more involved in and attuned to America&#8217;s foreign policy debates.</p>
<p>In 1936, anti-war warrior Maj. Gen. Smedley D. Butler (USMC) proposed an &#8220;Amendment for Peace&#8221; to the US Constitution (newly posted at my &#8220;Just Warriors&#8221; weblog). While he doesn&#8217;t mention the militia <i>per se</i>, he seems to imply that, with no land forces stationed overseas and peacetime travel of US military ships and aircraft restricted by proximity to US seacoasts, a large professional military would be unnecessary.</p>
<p>Sean Scallon: &#8220;What we are in danger of is creating a military caste who persons who think they have more rights and privliges because they do choose to wear a uniform.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chilling. I have heard people occasionally suggest an idea akin to that portrayed in Heinlein&#8217;s dystopian <i>Starship Troopers</i>: You have to earn your citizenship by first serving in the military.</p>
<p>I truly believe that every able-bodied male has a moral obligation (otherwise governed by dictates of his conscience) to fight to defend his community and nation. As a USAF vet (1980-1983), there was a time (early-to-mid 90s) when I anticipated counseling my three sons to volunteer for a hitch in the &#8220;real&#8221; military — the Army or the Marines. By the end late 90&#8242;s, having read Pat Buchanan, Joseph Sobran and others on the Gulf War, I was beginning to rethink that approach. Seeing our nation manipulated into invading Iraq after 9/11 cinched it for me.</p>
<p>Now I counsel my sons <i>not</i> to volunteer. (While they might join for the right reasons, they would almost certainly be sent overseas for the <i>wrong</i> reasons.)</p>
<p>I also tell them, &#8220;If the draft is ever reinstated, be prepared to extend your arms, wrists up, and ask them, &#8216;Where&#8217;s my rockpile?&#8217;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Barney Rebble</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11205</link>
		<dc:creator>Barney Rebble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11205</guid>
		<description>What an arrogant and childish misplacement of intellectual center of gravity.

I showed up at the wrong time, and/or the wrong place, and instead of admitting it, I set about criticizing others.  There were a couple other like-minded souls there, who helped me reinforce my poor opinion of all those other minions who did not share my views.

A conservative would have said, &quot;what can I learn from this?&quot;

A lib would say, &quot;here is what is wrong with everyone else.&quot;

I inject the word childish, because we would like to forget the lines of hate-filled and contorted faces that threw blood and screamed insults outside the airports when Viet Nam vets returned home.

The nation, starting a few years ago, particularly in view of the sharp political divide, began to try to genuflect towards the concept that while it was OK to scream insults at BUSH and his NEOCONS, we somehow needed to differentiate between them and those who were just doing a dangerous job on our behalf.

The jingoistic lefty-press, and their mindless followers, began mouthing this mantra, and Mr Dougherty is right to question whether it still has meaning to us (and given lefty-dishonesty, whether it ever did).

But for people, full of self importance, to insist that this is how all mothers and teachers and ambulance workers and firemen and police and soldiers...  ALL see themselves...  is immature and ridiculous.

&quot;hero-worship we give to soldiers is patronizing and dangerous. We pretend our soldiers are so different from us.&quot;

If you feel like that, then leave it, and come over and join the conservatives, who have seen what all that was, from the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an arrogant and childish misplacement of intellectual center of gravity.</p>
<p>I showed up at the wrong time, and/or the wrong place, and instead of admitting it, I set about criticizing others.  There were a couple other like-minded souls there, who helped me reinforce my poor opinion of all those other minions who did not share my views.</p>
<p>A conservative would have said, &#8220;what can I learn from this?&#8221;</p>
<p>A lib would say, &#8220;here is what is wrong with everyone else.&#8221;</p>
<p>I inject the word childish, because we would like to forget the lines of hate-filled and contorted faces that threw blood and screamed insults outside the airports when Viet Nam vets returned home.</p>
<p>The nation, starting a few years ago, particularly in view of the sharp political divide, began to try to genuflect towards the concept that while it was OK to scream insults at BUSH and his NEOCONS, we somehow needed to differentiate between them and those who were just doing a dangerous job on our behalf.</p>
<p>The jingoistic lefty-press, and their mindless followers, began mouthing this mantra, and Mr Dougherty is right to question whether it still has meaning to us (and given lefty-dishonesty, whether it ever did).</p>
<p>But for people, full of self importance, to insist that this is how all mothers and teachers and ambulance workers and firemen and police and soldiers&#8230;  ALL see themselves&#8230;  is immature and ridiculous.</p>
<p>&#8220;hero-worship we give to soldiers is patronizing and dangerous. We pretend our soldiers are so different from us.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you feel like that, then leave it, and come over and join the conservatives, who have seen what all that was, from the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Giraldi</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11186</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Giraldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11186</guid>
		<description>When I was in the army during Vietnam most soldiers just wanted to get through the experience alive and return to a normal life.  All the current talk of &quot;heroes&quot; and extolling our &quot;warriors&quot; makes me feel very uncomfortable and I suspect that active duty troops know just how insincere the sentiments are.  In &quot;Tommy&quot; Kipling (as always) got it about right:  &quot;We aren&#039;t no thin red &#039;eroes, no we aren&#039;t no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in the army during Vietnam most soldiers just wanted to get through the experience alive and return to a normal life.  All the current talk of &#8220;heroes&#8221; and extolling our &#8220;warriors&#8221; makes me feel very uncomfortable and I suspect that active duty troops know just how insincere the sentiments are.  In &#8220;Tommy&#8221; Kipling (as always) got it about right:  &#8220;We aren&#8217;t no thin red &#8216;eroes, no we aren&#8217;t no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Old Whig</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11181</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Whig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11181</guid>
		<description>There would be no gulf and no nead for a draft if we weren&#039;t sending our people to fight unnecessary wars to maintain a burdensome empire.

O.W.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There would be no gulf and no nead for a draft if we weren&#8217;t sending our people to fight unnecessary wars to maintain a burdensome empire.</p>
<p>O.W.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Scallon</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11178</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Scallon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11178</guid>
		<description>Bacevich&#039;s book &quot;The New American Militarism&quot; is one I urge all to buy or check out from the library for ut is very good at describining the relationship between the current AFV and the populace as a whole. What we are in danger of is creating a military caste who persons who think they have more rights and privliges because they do choose to wear a uniform. It&#039;s just human nature. You tell someone over and over again what wonderful people they are and dependent we are on them and they going to start believing it in very bad ways</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bacevich&#8217;s book &#8220;The New American Militarism&#8221; is one I urge all to buy or check out from the library for ut is very good at describining the relationship between the current AFV and the populace as a whole. What we are in danger of is creating a military caste who persons who think they have more rights and privliges because they do choose to wear a uniform. It&#8217;s just human nature. You tell someone over and over again what wonderful people they are and dependent we are on them and they going to start believing it in very bad ways</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan P. Origer</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11173</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan P. Origer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11173</guid>
		<description>Amen, MBD!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, MBD!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas O. Meehan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/11/11/veterans-only-day/comment-page-1/#comment-11170</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas O. Meehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=2290#comment-11170</guid>
		<description>Once we abandoned the draft the gulf between those who serve and the rest of us was destined to grow.  Your idea about just showing the guys at the VFW support in ordinary terms is spot on.  I think there is a certain residual guilt among those who did not serve in the military, even in the case of people who would have served if chosen.  

Shared service definitely creates bonds within a community.  Beyond military veterans, I can see that bonding among the volunteer firemen and EMTs in my area.   How we get more of that without governmental regimentation is a good question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once we abandoned the draft the gulf between those who serve and the rest of us was destined to grow.  Your idea about just showing the guys at the VFW support in ordinary terms is spot on.  I think there is a certain residual guilt among those who did not serve in the military, even in the case of people who would have served if chosen.  </p>
<p>Shared service definitely creates bonds within a community.  Beyond military veterans, I can see that bonding among the volunteer firemen and EMTs in my area.   How we get more of that without governmental regimentation is a good question.</p>
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