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	<title>Comments on: Convoluted Argument of the Day Award</title>
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	<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/06/25/convoluted-argument-of-the-day-award/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=convoluted-argument-of-the-day-award</link>
	<description>@TAC</description>
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		<title>By: MattSwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/06/25/convoluted-argument-of-the-day-award/comment-page-1/#comment-7473</link>
		<dc:creator>MattSwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1945#comment-7473</guid>
		<description>Frum asks, 

&lt;blockquote&gt;What on earth does the publication of this embarrassing and hurtfully intimate material add to a story that was already plain enough?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As if every scandal were as self-explanatory as all that, as if people don&#039;t sometimes confess to part of their wrongdoing in hopes that the rest will avoid detection, as if the public didn&#039;t have a right to relevant information about how a public servant uses State property and why.

Had this affair not happened, and had Sanford the real conservative become a contender in 2012, one can already envision the slings and arrows that the center-right neocon Frum would have sent his way during the primaries. Now that Sanford is neutralized politically, Frum can swoop in and &quot;defend&quot; him.

Behaving as Sanford has means being unable to choose one&#039;s friends and defenders, though.

I still think a great deal of him. He&#039;s done an awful thing, and maybe his career deserves to end over it, but he got a lot of things right, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frum asks, </p>
<blockquote><p>What on earth does the publication of this embarrassing and hurtfully intimate material add to a story that was already plain enough?</p></blockquote>
<p>As if every scandal were as self-explanatory as all that, as if people don&#8217;t sometimes confess to part of their wrongdoing in hopes that the rest will avoid detection, as if the public didn&#8217;t have a right to relevant information about how a public servant uses State property and why.</p>
<p>Had this affair not happened, and had Sanford the real conservative become a contender in 2012, one can already envision the slings and arrows that the center-right neocon Frum would have sent his way during the primaries. Now that Sanford is neutralized politically, Frum can swoop in and &#8220;defend&#8221; him.</p>
<p>Behaving as Sanford has means being unable to choose one&#8217;s friends and defenders, though.</p>
<p>I still think a great deal of him. He&#8217;s done an awful thing, and maybe his career deserves to end over it, but he got a lot of things right, too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Barney Rebble</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/06/25/convoluted-argument-of-the-day-award/comment-page-1/#comment-7472</link>
		<dc:creator>Barney Rebble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1945#comment-7472</guid>
		<description>http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279/page/2

(3rd paragraph)
David Frum said: &quot;Notice that Limbaugh did not say: &quot;I hope the administration&#039;s liberal plans fail.&quot; Or (better): &quot;I know the administration&#039;s liberal plans will fail.&quot; Or (best): &quot;I fear that this administration&#039;s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.&quot; If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh&#039;s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful...&quot;

Of course that was a untrue, and that *is exactly* what Limbaugh said.  He carefully explained to Hannity that that was *exactly* what he meant:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525077,00.html

LIMBAUGH: &quot;No, I don&#039;t back away from anything I&#039;ve said about President Obama and his policies and his plans. I don&#039;t know him personally. I don&#039;t wish him ill as a human being. But he&#039;s my president. He&#039;s all of our president. His ideas and his policies matter.&quot;

People who hate Limbaugh presumably are motivated by the fear of seeing conservatives congregate anywhere, for any reason.  They don&#039;t like conservatives who advance ideas, they don&#039;t like conservative *movements*.

Find more than half a million conservatives getting together, and you will find some *superior &quot;conservative&quot;* denigrating that group, or it&#039;s leader.  We can find you a consistant example, even here on TAC, if you need.

A conservative will say, &quot;Here is what I wish they would do, or here is my plan&quot;.

A conservative pretender will insult, trying to create a caracature (a hallmark of the *left*), rather than argue substance.

And yet:

http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=0741c20a-c039-495c-b066-65ee12a668e1

I wonder if we are reading what Frum said wrongly. Where does he say we need to feel sympathy?  Where does he say &quot;media intrudes&quot;?

Doesn&#039;t he say, rather, that the left are hypocritical about &quot;privacy rights&quot;, and will use same when it suits their agenda, even when there is no apparant need to have done so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279/page/2" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279/page/2</a></p>
<p>(3rd paragraph)<br />
David Frum said: &#8220;Notice that Limbaugh did not say: &#8220;I hope the administration&#8217;s liberal plans fail.&#8221; Or (better): &#8220;I know the administration&#8217;s liberal plans will fail.&#8221; Or (best): &#8220;I fear that this administration&#8217;s liberal plans will fail, as liberal plans usually do.&#8221; If it had been phrased that way, nobody could have used Limbaugh&#8217;s words to misrepresent conservatives as clueless, indifferent or gleeful&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course that was a untrue, and that *is exactly* what Limbaugh said.  He carefully explained to Hannity that that was *exactly* what he meant:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525077,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525077,00.html</a></p>
<p>LIMBAUGH: &#8220;No, I don&#8217;t back away from anything I&#8217;ve said about President Obama and his policies and his plans. I don&#8217;t know him personally. I don&#8217;t wish him ill as a human being. But he&#8217;s my president. He&#8217;s all of our president. His ideas and his policies matter.&#8221;</p>
<p>People who hate Limbaugh presumably are motivated by the fear of seeing conservatives congregate anywhere, for any reason.  They don&#8217;t like conservatives who advance ideas, they don&#8217;t like conservative *movements*.</p>
<p>Find more than half a million conservatives getting together, and you will find some *superior &#8220;conservative&#8221;* denigrating that group, or it&#8217;s leader.  We can find you a consistant example, even here on TAC, if you need.</p>
<p>A conservative will say, &#8220;Here is what I wish they would do, or here is my plan&#8221;.</p>
<p>A conservative pretender will insult, trying to create a caracature (a hallmark of the *left*), rather than argue substance.</p>
<p>And yet:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=0741c20a-c039-495c-b066-65ee12a668e1" rel="nofollow">http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=0741c20a-c039-495c-b066-65ee12a668e1</a></p>
<p>I wonder if we are reading what Frum said wrongly. Where does he say we need to feel sympathy?  Where does he say &#8220;media intrudes&#8221;?</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t he say, rather, that the left are hypocritical about &#8220;privacy rights&#8221;, and will use same when it suits their agenda, even when there is no apparant need to have done so?</p>
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