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	<title>Comments on: Is Notre Dame Still Catholic?</title>
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		<title>By: Catholic Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-6433</link>
		<dc:creator>Catholic Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 05:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-6433</guid>
		<description>Note to John:  OK, so if he is not the most &quot;pro-abortion&quot; president ever.....then who the heck was????  One of them has to be.  This ought to be good to see how you worm out of this one.  Pope John XXIII once said “I believe that when I stand before God, God will simply ask me, ‘How did you use the gift of life I gave you?’ ”  I am ready to answer.....are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note to John:  OK, so if he is not the most &#8220;pro-abortion&#8221; president ever&#8230;..then who the heck was????  One of them has to be.  This ought to be good to see how you worm out of this one.  Pope John XXIII once said “I believe that when I stand before God, God will simply ask me, ‘How did you use the gift of life I gave you?’ ”  I am ready to answer&#8230;..are you?</p>
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		<title>By: bill dunlap</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5616</link>
		<dc:creator>bill dunlap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5616</guid>
		<description>I guess it is not ok for Obama to speak at Notre Dame, but I&#039;ll bet this twit has no problem taking money from the NRA, which has helped kill how many children by being on the wrong end of a gun.
Or I&#039;ll bet he was pro George Bush, who had no problem killing americans in an un-necessary war for profit.
OR Dick Cheney, who while being vice president of the united states, still was a prower broker at Halliburton, which has killed soldiers by their republican ways of building showers, which has electrocuted over a hundred soldiers with shoddy workmanship.
I&#039;ll bet he also pro war, and gives money to Pat Robertson, who went on one of the God Channels and put a bounty on Hugo Chevez&#039;s head, and  was OK with that as well.
Talk about the poster children of the two faced people....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it is not ok for Obama to speak at Notre Dame, but I&#8217;ll bet this twit has no problem taking money from the NRA, which has helped kill how many children by being on the wrong end of a gun.<br />
Or I&#8217;ll bet he was pro George Bush, who had no problem killing americans in an un-necessary war for profit.<br />
OR Dick Cheney, who while being vice president of the united states, still was a prower broker at Halliburton, which has killed soldiers by their republican ways of building showers, which has electrocuted over a hundred soldiers with shoddy workmanship.<br />
I&#8217;ll bet he also pro war, and gives money to Pat Robertson, who went on one of the God Channels and put a bounty on Hugo Chevez&#8217;s head, and  was OK with that as well.<br />
Talk about the poster children of the two faced people&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan P. Origer</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5539</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan P. Origer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5539</guid>
		<description>http://nathancontramundi.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/obama-at-nd/

Additionally, Mr Carrington is a bit obtuse, to say the least, and probably one of the last people, right up there with Chris Hitchens, whom I&#039;d consult about what is Catholic and what is anti-Catholic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nathancontramundi.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/obama-at-nd/" rel="nofollow">http://nathancontramundi.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/obama-at-nd/</a></p>
<p>Additionally, Mr Carrington is a bit obtuse, to say the least, and probably one of the last people, right up there with Chris Hitchens, whom I&#8217;d consult about what is Catholic and what is anti-Catholic.</p>
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		<title>By: JPG</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5513</link>
		<dc:creator>JPG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5513</guid>
		<description>Kevin, if faithful Catholics keep supporting (financially, I assume you mean) a nominally Catholic school despite its dubious actions, those actions will continue to get worse.  Eventually you&#039;re hardly better off than if you were sending your money to Planned Parenthood.

The solution is for the relevant bishop to revoke the Catholic identity of a school that persists in non-Catholic behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, if faithful Catholics keep supporting (financially, I assume you mean) a nominally Catholic school despite its dubious actions, those actions will continue to get worse.  Eventually you&#8217;re hardly better off than if you were sending your money to Planned Parenthood.</p>
<p>The solution is for the relevant bishop to revoke the Catholic identity of a school that persists in non-Catholic behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas O. Meehan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5481</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas O. Meehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5481</guid>
		<description>In matters of ethics and public policy the church has a right to insist that institutions operating in its name uphold its ideals.  Inviting a politician like Obama has nothing to do with free enquiry.  it has everything to do with public policy that the Church and many other Christians find immoral.   

Speaking of ironies, some commenters here fault the Church with failing to in effect defer to Obama as a secular leader.  Yet how many of you also fault Pius XII specifically for participating in diplomatic relations with that other secular leader, Adolph Hitler?  It seems the Church can&#039;t win with some people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In matters of ethics and public policy the church has a right to insist that institutions operating in its name uphold its ideals.  Inviting a politician like Obama has nothing to do with free enquiry.  it has everything to do with public policy that the Church and many other Christians find immoral.   </p>
<p>Speaking of ironies, some commenters here fault the Church with failing to in effect defer to Obama as a secular leader.  Yet how many of you also fault Pius XII specifically for participating in diplomatic relations with that other secular leader, Adolph Hitler?  It seems the Church can&#8217;t win with some people.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin J Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5471</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin J Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5471</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m surprised that noone else has noticed the irony of the posting above (by JPG) that mentions favorably both biological science and papal infallibility. Given the church’s shifting historical ideas about evolution, the two would seem to be quite obviously at odds.&quot;

Inform yourself better about the nuances of Catholic theology and papal infallibility, and you&#039;ll realize the irony is not so great as you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m surprised that noone else has noticed the irony of the posting above (by JPG) that mentions favorably both biological science and papal infallibility. Given the church’s shifting historical ideas about evolution, the two would seem to be quite obviously at odds.&#8221;</p>
<p>Inform yourself better about the nuances of Catholic theology and papal infallibility, and you&#8217;ll realize the irony is not so great as you think.</p>
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		<title>By: ssss</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5468</link>
		<dc:creator>ssss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5468</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised that noone else has noticed the irony of the posting above (by JPG) that mentions favorably both biological science and papal infallibility.  Given the church&#039;s shifting historical ideas about evolution, the two would seem to be quite obviously at odds.

And this hints at the crux of this as I see it: yes Notre Dame is a serious university and yes it&#039;s Catholic.  But if it&#039;s to take seriously its mission as a serious university, it can&#039;t take its institutional cues about ideas, speakers, and even honorary degrees from the Catholic hierarchy. If it did it would become something more like Oral Roberts or somesuch--which would never invite a political figure who didn&#039;t tow its institutional party line and which is not a serious university.  So, yes Catholic and, yes, hetrodox, as any serious research institution must be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised that noone else has noticed the irony of the posting above (by JPG) that mentions favorably both biological science and papal infallibility.  Given the church&#8217;s shifting historical ideas about evolution, the two would seem to be quite obviously at odds.</p>
<p>And this hints at the crux of this as I see it: yes Notre Dame is a serious university and yes it&#8217;s Catholic.  But if it&#8217;s to take seriously its mission as a serious university, it can&#8217;t take its institutional cues about ideas, speakers, and even honorary degrees from the Catholic hierarchy. If it did it would become something more like Oral Roberts or somesuch&#8211;which would never invite a political figure who didn&#8217;t tow its institutional party line and which is not a serious university.  So, yes Catholic and, yes, hetrodox, as any serious research institution must be.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin J Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5461</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin J Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5461</guid>
		<description>Note the vicious cycle: Faithful/rigorist Catholics stop supporting a Catholic school because of its dubious actions.

This makes the school more dependent on lax Catholics and non-Catholics&#039; support.

This makes the school perform more dubious actions, which then prompt more Catholics to stop supporting it.

Anybody wishing to steal another Catholic university from the faithful who built it would simply have to instigate one or two large scandals to begin the negative feedback loop.

Granting its existence, how could this cycle be reversed? Among pro-life Catholics, &quot;decline and fall&quot; is the preferred narrative rather than &quot;recovery after collapse.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note the vicious cycle: Faithful/rigorist Catholics stop supporting a Catholic school because of its dubious actions.</p>
<p>This makes the school more dependent on lax Catholics and non-Catholics&#8217; support.</p>
<p>This makes the school perform more dubious actions, which then prompt more Catholics to stop supporting it.</p>
<p>Anybody wishing to steal another Catholic university from the faithful who built it would simply have to instigate one or two large scandals to begin the negative feedback loop.</p>
<p>Granting its existence, how could this cycle be reversed? Among pro-life Catholics, &#8220;decline and fall&#8221; is the preferred narrative rather than &#8220;recovery after collapse.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas O. Meehan</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas O. Meehan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5458</guid>
		<description>Or perhaps Obama wishes to acknowledge the fact that but for the Church, Universities as we know them, would not exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or perhaps Obama wishes to acknowledge the fact that but for the Church, Universities as we know them, would not exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Panfile</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5447</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Panfile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5447</guid>
		<description>One might better ask, is the President still American?  The US is an institution that in theory supports equal rights for women, and severe punishment for child molestation.  It would seem to me that it diminishes the moral authority of the country to have its President associated with an institution that is affiliated with Catholicism.  Or perhaps it&#039;s just a speech, and more high-horsiness is a silly game best left to the immature?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One might better ask, is the President still American?  The US is an institution that in theory supports equal rights for women, and severe punishment for child molestation.  It would seem to me that it diminishes the moral authority of the country to have its President associated with an institution that is affiliated with Catholicism.  Or perhaps it&#8217;s just a speech, and more high-horsiness is a silly game best left to the immature?</p>
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		<title>By: Kirt Higdon</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5445</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirt Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5445</guid>
		<description>Notre Dame hasn&#039;t been Catholic in decades.  Its former president, Father Hesburgh, conspired with the Kennedys and the Rockefeller foundation to promote contraception and even to get Pope Paul VI to endorse that abomination.  They failed with the Pope but succeeded in the larger objective of promoting the anti-life mentality and practices throughout the US and the world.  Meanwhile Notre Dame has played host to every anti-Catholic movement and individual it can find.  It has been anti-life longer than Obama has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notre Dame hasn&#8217;t been Catholic in decades.  Its former president, Father Hesburgh, conspired with the Kennedys and the Rockefeller foundation to promote contraception and even to get Pope Paul VI to endorse that abomination.  They failed with the Pope but succeeded in the larger objective of promoting the anti-life mentality and practices throughout the US and the world.  Meanwhile Notre Dame has played host to every anti-Catholic movement and individual it can find.  It has been anti-life longer than Obama has.</p>
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		<title>By: JPG</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5443</link>
		<dc:creator>JPG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 04:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5443</guid>
		<description>John,

St Aquinas based his *opinion* on the very limited science of the time.  His flawed understanding of human biology led him to judge early abortions as less evil than late-term abortions -- but still gravely evil.  St  Aquinas was not a pope, and thus never taught infallibly on this or any other issue.

Here in the 21st century we know that the fetus is alive, human, distinct from the mother (though still dependent on her), and a complete organism (rather than part of a larger organism, as an arm or liver would be).  This is basic biology, and would never be debated for the fetuses of non-human species.

Still, science can&#039;t tell us if the fetus has a soul (if souls even exist), or is a Person (whatever that is), or is deserving of legal protection against attempts by its mother to kill it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>St Aquinas based his *opinion* on the very limited science of the time.  His flawed understanding of human biology led him to judge early abortions as less evil than late-term abortions &#8212; but still gravely evil.  St  Aquinas was not a pope, and thus never taught infallibly on this or any other issue.</p>
<p>Here in the 21st century we know that the fetus is alive, human, distinct from the mother (though still dependent on her), and a complete organism (rather than part of a larger organism, as an arm or liver would be).  This is basic biology, and would never be debated for the fetuses of non-human species.</p>
<p>Still, science can&#8217;t tell us if the fetus has a soul (if souls even exist), or is a Person (whatever that is), or is deserving of legal protection against attempts by its mother to kill it.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5440</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5440</guid>
		<description>Pat,

First, wasn&#039;t it the opinion of the St Thomas Aquinas about the fetus that the human soul enters it after 3 months of pregnancy? If so, why the opposition of the church to the abortion even in the first 3 months? Do the priests of today know more or are more pious than the teacher of the church? 

Second, would have you made the same vigorous objection if, say, president Bush had been invited and honored? Sure, he was anti abortion, but he was ok with killing hundreds of thousands of innocents at the whim of the Israel lobby and neocons. Sometimes impartiality is a virtue, you know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat,</p>
<p>First, wasn&#8217;t it the opinion of the St Thomas Aquinas about the fetus that the human soul enters it after 3 months of pregnancy? If so, why the opposition of the church to the abortion even in the first 3 months? Do the priests of today know more or are more pious than the teacher of the church? </p>
<p>Second, would have you made the same vigorous objection if, say, president Bush had been invited and honored? Sure, he was anti abortion, but he was ok with killing hundreds of thousands of innocents at the whim of the Israel lobby and neocons. Sometimes impartiality is a virtue, you know!</p>
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		<title>By: MattSwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5439</link>
		<dc:creator>MattSwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5439</guid>
		<description>If abortion is what Christians say it is, then there is no question of whether or not it should be illegal. It&#039;s interesting to see how shocking some of the recent comments favoring an intermediate approach would look when applied to other gross moral evils:

&quot;Rape is a personal, private, choice. It should be worked out between the two parties. Bringing the government into it really won&#039;t do any good. Are we really ready to send young men and women to jail for sex?&quot;

&quot;As a Christian, slavery isn&#039;t something that I would choose to engage in, but we ought to be governed by pragmatism on this issue. Freed slaves living among us would cause problems, and the issue would have horrible political repercussions. God calls us to be wise, and it&#039;s wisest to do nothing, at least until the political climate changes.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If abortion is what Christians say it is, then there is no question of whether or not it should be illegal. It&#8217;s interesting to see how shocking some of the recent comments favoring an intermediate approach would look when applied to other gross moral evils:</p>
<p>&#8220;Rape is a personal, private, choice. It should be worked out between the two parties. Bringing the government into it really won&#8217;t do any good. Are we really ready to send young men and women to jail for sex?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;As a Christian, slavery isn&#8217;t something that I would choose to engage in, but we ought to be governed by pragmatism on this issue. Freed slaves living among us would cause problems, and the issue would have horrible political repercussions. God calls us to be wise, and it&#8217;s wisest to do nothing, at least until the political climate changes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Hoop</title>
		<link>http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2009/03/30/is-notre-dame-still-catholic/comment-page-1/#comment-5433</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Hoop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1675#comment-5433</guid>
		<description>Many a conservative American Catholic and Christian who would not obtain one themself and who would go to lengths to discourage their kin on spiritual grounds to avoid same procedure, would, out of ethnopolitical concerns, not be enthused about overturning Roe vs. Wade currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many a conservative American Catholic and Christian who would not obtain one themself and who would go to lengths to discourage their kin on spiritual grounds to avoid same procedure, would, out of ethnopolitical concerns, not be enthused about overturning Roe vs. Wade currently.</p>
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