Comments on: Obama’s open field http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/23/obamas-open-field/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=obamas-open-field @TAC Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:36:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John Dudley http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/23/obamas-open-field/comment-page-1/#comment-3241 John Dudley Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:16:03 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1383#comment-3241 I think that is time for both Scott McConnell and blogger WRW to either read or re-read Israel Shahak's book "Open Secrets: Israeli Foreign and Nuclear Policies" Shahak points out quite clearly that the ultimate goal of the Israelis has always been to kick the Palestinians completely out of the West Bank and Gaza. The only time the Israelis even mention the possibility of a two state solution is in their English language media outlets which are meant for western consumption. A two state solution is NEVER mentioned in the Hebrew language media which openly and widely pushes the concept of a Greater Israel. When McConnell and WRW even mention the possibility of a solution that doesn't involve the total removal of the Palestinians I am struck by their almost terminal naiveness. It just ain't going to happen. I think that is time for both Scott McConnell and blogger WRW to either read or re-read Israel Shahak’s book “Open Secrets: Israeli Foreign and Nuclear Policies”

Shahak points out quite clearly that the ultimate goal of the Israelis has always been to kick the Palestinians completely out of the West Bank and Gaza. The only time the Israelis even mention the possibility of a two state solution is in their English language media outlets which are meant for western consumption. A two state solution is NEVER mentioned in the Hebrew language media which openly and widely pushes the concept of a Greater Israel.

When McConnell and WRW even mention the possibility of a solution that doesn’t involve the total removal of the Palestinians I am struck by their almost terminal naiveness. It just ain’t going to happen.

]]> By: WRW http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/23/obamas-open-field/comment-page-1/#comment-3222 WRW Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:39:08 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1383#comment-3222 Is there actually objective evidence to support a broad recognition by either the Israelis or Palestinians that a settlement of the dispute is needed? Frankly, my impression is that, for example, Israel and her supports in the US talk of peace, but never without a "but . . ." attached that shows peace isn't actually among their top concerns (forget the top concern, which doubtless, they would assert security should come first, whatever that means.) Similarly, except for the "West Bank bourgeoisie" as Scott trenchantly describes it, I'm doubtful that the Palestinians view peace as of greater concern than pride and grievance (by that I don't mean "the destruction of Israel" as Israel chauvinists repeatedly allege.) There are practical solutions to both the security question and the right of return that Scott identifies. Yet, excuses can always be made why the solution isn't good enough. I guess I've just exhausted myself in debating the subject with Israel supporters who always seem to circle back to the Palestinians have to surrender first. Is there actually objective evidence to support a broad recognition by either the Israelis or Palestinians that a settlement of the dispute is needed? Frankly, my impression is that, for example, Israel and her supports in the US talk of peace, but never without a “but . . .” attached that shows peace isn’t actually among their top concerns (forget the top concern, which doubtless, they would assert security should come first, whatever that means.) Similarly, except for the “West Bank bourgeoisie” as Scott trenchantly describes it, I’m doubtful that the Palestinians view peace as of greater concern than pride and grievance (by that I don’t mean “the destruction of Israel” as Israel chauvinists repeatedly allege.)

There are practical solutions to both the security question and the right of return that Scott identifies. Yet, excuses can always be made why the solution isn’t good enough. I guess I’ve just exhausted myself in debating the subject with Israel supporters who always seem to circle back to the Palestinians have to surrender first.

]]> By: TomB http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/23/obamas-open-field/comment-page-1/#comment-3213 TomB Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:37:12 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1383#comment-3213 "But I admit I was eventually taken in– coming to believe this guy really does understand how important and [sic] Israel-Palestinian settlement would be, for the people there and for us ... Mead’s point is that addressing legitimate Palestinian concerns broadly would help break down Israeli worries that...." Ah yes, America's raison d'etre, "breaking down Israeli worries." “But I admit I was eventually taken in– coming to believe this guy really does understand how important and [sic] Israel-Palestinian settlement would be, for the people there and for us … Mead’s point is that addressing legitimate Palestinian concerns broadly would help break down Israeli worries that….”

Ah yes, America’s raison d’etre, “breaking down Israeli worries.”

]]>