Comments on: No Sympathy For Charles Graner http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=no-sympathy-for-charles-graner @TAC Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:36:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sick Abu Ghraib Photog Released From Jail | SHOAH http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-69622 Sick Abu Ghraib Photog Released From Jail | SHOAH Sun, 07 Aug 2011 01:18:52 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-69622 [...] This is what i wrote almost three years ago when Salon had tried to air brush Graner in order to fry the big fish in the Bush Administration (a laudable effort, but I couldn’t allow them to let this predatory eel off the hook): [...] [...] This is what i wrote almost three years ago when Salon had tried to air brush Graner in order to fry the big fish in the Bush Administration (a laudable effort, but I couldn’t allow them to let this predatory eel off the hook): [...]

]]> By: Sick Abu Ghraib Photographer Released From Jail « MasterAdrian's Weblog http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-69613 Sick Abu Ghraib Photographer Released From Jail « MasterAdrian's Weblog Sun, 07 Aug 2011 00:44:14 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-69613 [...] This is what i wrote almost three years ago when Salon had tried to air brush Graner in order to fry the big fish in the Bush Administration (a laudable effort, but I couldn’t allow them to let this predatory eel off the hook):  So while I understand the inspiration behind Benjamin’s latest, “Sympathy for Charles Graner,” I don’t see how a semi-white wash of the guy with the camera is going to advance the cause. Sure, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and a handful of DoD, White House and CIA lawyers are running around with their livelihoods and plump speaking fees ahead of them while Graner rots in jail, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t belong there. [...] [...] This is what i wrote almost three years ago when Salon had tried to air brush Graner in order to fry the big fish in the Bush Administration (a laudable effort, but I couldn’t allow them to let this predatory eel off the hook):  So while I understand the inspiration behind Benjamin’s latest, “Sympathy for Charles Graner,” I don’t see how a semi-white wash of the guy with the camera is going to advance the cause. Sure, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and a handful of DoD, White House and CIA lawyers are running around with their livelihoods and plump speaking fees ahead of them while Graner rots in jail, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t belong there. [...]

]]> By: Mary Anne http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-16482 Mary Anne Sat, 01 May 2010 20:36:01 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-16482 Make no mistake - in no manner whatsoever was it "only" 7 people who perpetrated these humiliations and abuses against fellow human beings. This has been widespread and these 7 simply were caught on camera doing it and the brass were backed into a corner and forced to (finally) address it. I also don't for a minute buy the outrageous whining from these soldiers who claim they were told to do these things and that they were following orders. Seems to me that same excuse was used in the Nuremberg Trials as well. Someone, somewhere, sometime, has to take a stand and say "No." If just one does that, others will follow. What also sickens me is that nearly 90% of these prisoners in Abu Ghraib were later found to be ordinary civilians, innocent of any crimes. The Iraqi people were often ALREADY past victims of unspeakably graphic tortures by Uday Hussein and Saddam Hussein (Graner, et al had nothing on those guys) . Many of them looked to the Americans to help them have a future free of terror. I would say to those people, "I am sorry and ashamed. What I know and love and respect about my country is NOT what you experienced in Abu Ghraib." These soldiers enjoyed their antics just a little too much for me to buy any sob story now after the fact. Witness Charles Graner's father making light of his son's behavior...we often become how we were raised. Two words: White, and Trash. We have to teach and teach again that humanity - ALL HUMANITY - is worthy of dignity. Deserving of detainment and prison? Fine. But it doesn't have to include torture and stripping (no pun intended) a human being of the absolute most rudimentary of dignities. Make no mistake – in no manner whatsoever was it “only” 7 people who perpetrated these humiliations and abuses against fellow human beings. This has been widespread and these 7 simply were caught on camera doing it and the brass were backed into a corner and forced to (finally) address it.

I also don’t for a minute buy the outrageous whining from these soldiers who claim they were told to do these things and that they were following orders. Seems to me that same excuse was used in the Nuremberg Trials as well. Someone, somewhere, sometime, has to take a stand and say “No.” If just one does that, others will follow.

What also sickens me is that nearly 90% of these prisoners in Abu Ghraib were later found to be ordinary civilians, innocent of any crimes. The Iraqi people were often ALREADY past victims of unspeakably graphic tortures by Uday Hussein and Saddam Hussein (Graner, et al had nothing on those guys) . Many of them looked to the Americans to help them have a future free of terror. I would say to those people, “I am sorry and ashamed. What I know and love and respect about my country is NOT what you experienced in Abu Ghraib.” These soldiers enjoyed their antics just a little too much for me to buy any sob story now after the fact. Witness Charles Graner’s father making light of his son’s behavior…we often become how we were raised. Two words: White, and Trash.

We have to teach and teach again that humanity – ALL HUMANITY – is worthy of dignity. Deserving of detainment and prison? Fine. But it doesn’t have to include torture and stripping (no pun intended) a human being of the absolute most rudimentary of dignities.

]]> By: Kenedy David http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-11630 Kenedy David Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:34:36 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-11630 I think that he deserves more. This is all part of White Spremecy. Sadists like Graner will hardly suffer for their actions becuase they are white. You would have to be a complete sadist to do something like that to other people. He didn't even have anything against those detainees. I think that he deserves more. This is all part of White Spremecy. Sadists like Graner will hardly suffer for their actions becuase they are white. You would have to be a complete sadist to do something like that to other people. He didn’t even have anything against those detainees.

]]> By: SanjitK http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-9765 SanjitK Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:23:01 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-9765 This man deserves worse! This man deserves worse!

]]> By: SanjitK http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-9764 SanjitK Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:21:33 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-9764 My questions would be WHY!! What can drive a person to do such cruel acts? POWER= DESTRUCTION! *this reminds me of Hitler and how he tested the limits of the people and got his way...... My questions would be WHY!! What can drive a person to do such cruel acts?
POWER= DESTRUCTION!
*this reminds me of Hitler and how he tested the limits of the people and got his way……

]]> By: WilliamBrennan http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2737 WilliamBrennan Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:47:44 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2737 Mr Weber is 100% correct. The little sadists go to jail while their neokahn puppet masters collect their pensions and ride off into the sunset. Mr Weber is 100% correct. The little sadists go to jail while their neokahn puppet masters collect their pensions and ride off into the sunset.

]]> By: Marko http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2730 Marko Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:09:56 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2730 That Graner deserves to be in prison is not a disputable point. And Americans can honk all they want about their supposed respect for the rule of law; the facts speak for themselves. If you are poor, weak, and powerless the American legal system is merciless. If you are rich and connected, you can do what you will. Releasing Graner would do nothing to change that perception. Prosecuting his masters would. That will never happen of course; Americans prefer to live in oblivion with the consequences of their (in)actions since doing anything else is too much effort and too consequential. Thus do empires fail and fall. That Graner deserves to be in prison is not a disputable point. And Americans can honk all they want about their supposed respect for the rule of law; the facts speak for themselves. If you are poor, weak, and powerless the American legal system is merciless. If you are rich and connected, you can do what you will. Releasing Graner would do nothing to change that perception. Prosecuting his masters would. That will never happen of course; Americans prefer to live in oblivion with the consequences of their (in)actions since doing anything else is too much effort and too consequential. Thus do empires fail and fall.

]]> By: Jack Tracey http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2719 Jack Tracey Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:31:35 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2719 Let's face it... you have to be a real jerk to do what this guy did, even if you are authorized to do so by a don't ask don't tell torture policy from above. Let’s face it… you have to be a real jerk to do what this guy did, even if you are authorized to do so by a don’t ask don’t tell torture policy from above.

]]> By: Steve http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2717 Steve Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:12:14 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2717 We should have learned from reading James Jones' "From Here To Eternity" how our military treats prisoners. Our own are not exempted from such abuse. I had two friends who had returned late from leave and were put in a naval brig manned by marine guards. If the guards took a dislike to a prisoner (most prisoners fit this) the common practice was to place a hood over the prisoner's head and beat the hell out of him with rubber truncheons. No marks and no identification with such abuse. One story I read described an ARMY soldier who had the misfortune to be placed in such a brig. The marine guards forced the prisoners to crawl to their meals and beat them all the way to the tables. The composition of our forces consists of people from the lower rung of our economic ladder and perhaps this accounts for such conduct whenever they get into a position of power to get even with the civilian society they failed in. However, missing from this discussion is the fact that such conduct could not happen without the officers in charge permitting it. Steve, World War 2. We should have learned from reading James Jones’ “From Here To Eternity” how our military treats prisoners. Our own are not exempted from such abuse. I had two friends who had returned late from leave and were put in a naval brig manned by marine guards. If the guards took a dislike to a prisoner (most prisoners fit this) the common practice was to place a hood over the prisoner’s head and beat the hell out of him with rubber truncheons. No marks and no identification with such abuse. One story I read described an ARMY soldier who had the misfortune to be placed in such a brig. The marine guards forced the prisoners to crawl to their meals and beat them all the way to the tables. The composition of our forces consists of people from the lower rung of our economic ladder and perhaps this accounts for such conduct whenever they get into a position of power to get even with the civilian society they failed in. However, missing from this discussion is the fact that such conduct could not happen without the officers in charge permitting it. Steve, World War 2.

]]> By: C Bowen http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2714 C Bowen Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:21:17 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2714 He deserved the death penalty, if only for political reasons--that is the nature of such things--but then the point for a long time has been that the US is incapable of leftwing style Imperial rule which is designed to fail. He deserved the death penalty, if only for political reasons–that is the nature of such things–but then the point for a long time has been that the US is incapable of leftwing style Imperial rule which is designed to fail.

]]> By: Jason http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2710 Jason Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:32:39 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2710 Graner is getting what he deserves, and that will deter others from doing what he did. Graner is getting what he deserves, and that will deter others from doing what he did.

]]> By: Bob Weber http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2707 Bob Weber Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:33:38 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2707 Graner is a small-fry monster who cheerfully served big monsters. The only satisfaction he should get would be to have the big-time monsters keep him company in prison. Ain't gonna happen, of course. Graner is a small-fry monster who cheerfully served big monsters. The only satisfaction he should get would be to have the big-time monsters keep him company in prison. Ain’t gonna happen, of course.

]]> By: Bruno http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2706 Bruno Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:31:45 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2706 The conviction of some of the Abu Ghraib torturers was one of the few high spots helping to prop up the image of America abroad as a country that still respected the rule of law. Releasing Graner will send precisely the message that so long as you're American, and your victims are not, you will be let off the hook. Let's be serious, would people be calling for his release if his victims were fellow Americans? Quite apart from the fact that Graner deserves to be in the slammer for his actions, might I respectfully suggest that he additionally belongs there in order to maintain the image of the USA as a country that cares about justice and the rule of law not only for its own people, but for other peoples as well. The conviction of some of the Abu Ghraib torturers was one of the few high spots helping to prop up the image of America abroad as a country that still respected the rule of law. Releasing Graner will send precisely the message that so long as you’re American, and your victims are not, you will be let off the hook. Let’s be serious, would people be calling for his release if his victims were fellow Americans? Quite apart from the fact that Graner deserves to be in the slammer for his actions, might I respectfully suggest that he additionally belongs there in order to maintain the image of the USA as a country that cares about justice and the rule of law not only for its own people, but for other peoples as well.

]]> By: August Abraham http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/12/01/no-sympathy-for-charles-graner/comment-page-1/#comment-2698 August Abraham Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:53:31 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1310#comment-2698 When the american soldiers were in Port of Spain Trinidad in 1942 they demonstrated the same kind of abuse as in Iraq, its part of the american way as to how they treat non americans.........I am so happy that they are broke,it will give the rest of the world some respite. When the american soldiers were in Port of Spain Trinidad in 1942 they demonstrated the same kind of abuse as in Iraq, its part of the american way as to how they treat non americans………I am so happy that they are broke,it will give the rest of the world some respite.

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