Comments on: Conservative Cocktail Party http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-cocktail-party @TAC Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:36:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MattSwartz http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2112 MattSwartz Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:27:53 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2112 @Jack, I'd say that the Ron Paul movement isn't included within movement conservativism so much as it's diametrically opposed to it, and I think most here would agree with me. I say that what we should do now is try to work within the GOP if possible (by running strong, pro-liberty candidates in the primaries) and vote third party out of protest if they lose. @Jack,

I’d say that the Ron Paul movement isn’t included within movement conservativism so much as it’s diametrically opposed to it, and I think most here would agree with me.

I say that what we should do now is try to work within the GOP if possible (by running strong, pro-liberty candidates in the primaries) and vote third party out of protest if they lose.

]]> By: Jack Tracey http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2110 Jack Tracey Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:16:38 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2110 As I read AmConMag and other resources in my search for a rational and effective approach to liberty, I am finding myself increasingly corralled into inactivity. It seems posters here and elsewhere are saying that movement conservatism (including the Paul rEVOLution) has, in fact, degenerated into a racket. Am I to prove my righteous provincialism by not joining up as Bramwell suggests? I am wary of the loyalties and compromises demanded by organized collective action. However, those who would make my country a socialist slave state-- owned by a central bank-- are very organized. Their racket is paying out to them and to those they seduce. Is an organized conservative movement not worth maintaining if it rewards its supporters with favors? Will the reward of collective good ever be enough to motivate individuals to slog through the mercenary sewer of public life? And just what can a young man do if there is no army to join? As I read AmConMag and other resources in my search for a rational and effective approach to liberty, I am finding myself increasingly corralled into inactivity. It seems posters here and elsewhere are saying that movement conservatism (including the Paul rEVOLution) has, in fact, degenerated into a racket. Am I to prove my righteous provincialism by not joining up as Bramwell suggests? I am wary of the loyalties and compromises demanded by organized collective action. However, those who would make my country a socialist slave state– owned by a central bank– are very organized. Their racket is paying out to them and to those they seduce. Is an organized conservative movement not worth maintaining if it rewards its supporters with favors? Will the reward of collective good ever be enough to motivate individuals to slog through the mercenary sewer of public life? And just what can a young man do if there is no army to join?

]]> By: Indya http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2108 Indya Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:45:39 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2108 I'm just tickled by the fact that one cocktail party is acceptable conduct versus another. But then, that's the state of the GOP these days: pure hypocrisy. I’m just tickled by the fact that one cocktail party is acceptable conduct versus another. But then, that’s the state of the GOP these days: pure hypocrisy.

]]> By: Jason http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2095 Jason Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:46:09 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2095 Time to set aside the bickering and start being constructive. http://rightklik.blogspot.com/ Time to set aside the bickering and start being constructive.
http://rightklik.blogspot.com/

]]> By: MattSwartz http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2088 MattSwartz Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:50:53 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2088 Continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, and I guess it applies here. The pro-war, moderate-on-spending conservative model will lose until they drop it, and I sure hope it gets dropped before the midterm elections. Continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results is one definition of insanity, and I guess it applies here.

The pro-war, moderate-on-spending conservative model will lose until they drop it, and I sure hope it gets dropped before the midterm elections.

]]> By: Dylan Hales http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2087 Dylan Hales Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:07:41 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2087 Dan, Viguerie may have appeared at the Robert Taft Club and been critical of the McCain/Bush crowd, but he was among the very first "movement" figureheads to latch on to Palin as the second coming of American Conservatism. The press release/article he shot out that day was called "She's Perfect!" and set the tone for some of the more ridiculous Paleos for Palin nonsense (not that Richard is a paleo necessarily). I applaud Viguerie's ability to get out in front of figures and causes that he thinks may pay some dividends, but I'm not sure the dividends Richard is interested extend beyond his mailing list or his wallet. It's also worth noting that some of the more outlandish decisions and behaviors made by the Barr campaign were made AFTER the Palin endorsement. Viguerie was a huge Barr backer and weaseled his way into a speaking slot at the LP convention this year. He also gobbled up the popular libertarian-leaning webzine, Third Party Watch just prior to the convention, which effectively muzzled some of the more anti-Barr grassroots sentiment. I don't want to come off as a conspiracy nut, but it seems to me that Viguerie was using the Barr campaign and the LP. Once he was on the wagon with McCain/Palin we started to get press releases from the Barr camp extolling the virtues of Bush and regular attacks on Ron Paul, which effectively killed the Barr campaign dead. Coincidence? Dan,

Viguerie may have appeared at the Robert Taft Club and been critical of the McCain/Bush crowd, but he was among the very first “movement” figureheads to latch on to Palin as the second coming of American Conservatism. The press release/article he shot out that day was called “She’s Perfect!” and set the tone for some of the more ridiculous Paleos for Palin nonsense (not that Richard is a paleo necessarily). I applaud Viguerie’s ability to get out in front of figures and causes that he thinks may pay some dividends, but I’m not sure the dividends Richard is interested extend beyond his mailing list or his wallet.

It’s also worth noting that some of the more outlandish decisions and behaviors made by the Barr campaign were made AFTER the Palin endorsement. Viguerie was a huge Barr backer and weaseled his way into a speaking slot at the LP convention this year. He also gobbled up the popular libertarian-leaning webzine, Third Party Watch just prior to the convention, which effectively muzzled some of the more anti-Barr grassroots sentiment. I don’t want to come off as a conspiracy nut, but it seems to me that Viguerie was using the Barr campaign and the LP. Once he was on the wagon with McCain/Palin we started to get press releases from the Barr camp extolling the virtues of Bush and regular attacks on Ron Paul, which effectively killed the Barr campaign dead.

Coincidence?

]]> By: A very good point | Political Byline http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2076 A very good point | Political Byline Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:30:19 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2076 [...] McCarthy makes a very good point over at @TAC: Phil Klein of the American Spectator reports on the recent not-so-secret conclave of [...] [...] McCarthy makes a very good point over at @TAC: Phil Klein of the American Spectator reports on the recent not-so-secret conclave of [...]

]]> By: Kelley Vlahos http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2068 Kelley Vlahos Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:18:29 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2068 I take your point on Viguerie. But I think all grassroots political movements take a particularly nasty and corruptive turn when their leaders start profiting personally from them. I take your point on Viguerie.

But I think all grassroots political movements take a particularly nasty and corruptive turn when their leaders start profiting personally from them.

]]> By: mt http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2063 mt Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:50:21 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2063 Wait. Wasn't Bozell a Buchanan man? Wait. Wasn’t Bozell a Buchanan man?

]]> By: Michael http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2060 Michael Sat, 08 Nov 2008 07:32:47 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2060 How do we get AmConMag conservatives into discussions like these? We must do more than twiddle our thumbs and throw spitballs at the "movement" guys. I'm surprised Bramwell wasn't invited. How do we get AmConMag conservatives into discussions like these? We must do more than twiddle our thumbs and throw spitballs at the “movement” guys.

I’m surprised Bramwell wasn’t invited.

]]> By: Daniel McCarthy http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2051 Daniel McCarthy Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:33:40 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2051 No, Viguerie was not a Paul supporter during the primaries, although his company started a website that marketed itself as catering to Paul supporters. If that sounds a little odd, well, it is. I give Viguerie credit for taking a stand against Bush and McCain, though. I believe he supported Bob Barr (at least initially) in the general election. No, Viguerie was not a Paul supporter during the primaries, although his company started a website that marketed itself as catering to Paul supporters. If that sounds a little odd, well, it is.

I give Viguerie credit for taking a stand against Bush and McCain, though. I believe he supported Bob Barr (at least initially) in the general election.

]]> By: smeal http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2050 smeal Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:46:13 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2050 Norquist actually is very smart, and has been a frequent target for smearing by "national security conservatives"- that last a new euphemism, I suppose. His obsession with taxes can seem kind of reductive, but he has realized from the beginning the Iraq and the wished for subsequent wars were not in America's interest. He has kept quiet about it, for Republican loyalty sake. I wonder if he will continue to. Norquist actually is very smart, and has been a frequent target for smearing by “national security conservatives”- that last a new euphemism, I suppose. His obsession with taxes can seem kind of reductive, but he has realized from the beginning the Iraq and the wished for subsequent wars were not in America’s interest. He has kept quiet about it, for Republican loyalty sake. I wonder if he will continue to.

]]> By: George Hawley http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2049 George Hawley Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:37:18 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2049 I agree with many of your sentiments here, but isn't Richard Viguerie a rather outspoken "Ron Paul Republican"? I agree with many of your sentiments here, but isn’t Richard Viguerie a rather outspoken “Ron Paul Republican”?

]]> By: Kelley Vlahos http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/2008/11/07/the-cocktail-party/comment-page-1/#comment-2044 Kelley Vlahos Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:01:19 +0000 http://www.amconmag.com/blog/?p=1230#comment-2044 Does anyone take this racket seriously anymore? These people have been circling throughout Washington for years like parasites and have everything to do with what has gone wrong with conservative politics -- and by extension, the Republican Party -- in the last 25 years. These familiar hacks and fundraisers (cheerleaders of the current administration, all) are now smacking their lips at the prospect of slapping together new 527s, Potemkin village think tanks and new "grassroots organizations" while plucking the same old harp strings and sticking their hands into old ladies pocketbooks for the advancement of the "movement." I'd like to know which "libertarians" were really at this thing. Does anyone take this racket seriously anymore? These people have been circling throughout Washington for years like parasites and have everything to do with what has gone wrong with conservative politics — and by extension, the Republican Party — in the last 25 years. These familiar hacks and fundraisers (cheerleaders of the current administration, all) are now smacking their lips at the prospect of slapping together new 527s, Potemkin village think tanks and new “grassroots organizations” while plucking the same old harp strings and sticking their hands into old ladies pocketbooks for the advancement of the “movement.”

I’d like to know which “libertarians” were really at this thing.

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